tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post243598189946877702..comments2024-03-20T00:30:11.702-07:00Comments on Home Education Heretic: The angry autonomousSimon Webbhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10865289865412656573noreply@blogger.comBlogger82125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-81297015396579137732009-10-12T08:47:42.772-07:002009-10-12T08:47:42.772-07:00Back peddling? About original sin? I don't thi...Back peddling? About original sin? I don't think so. Tell me, what was it that I said that made you believe that I subscribe to this doctrine?Simon Webbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10865289865412656573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-88873067740059232842009-10-12T08:22:21.702-07:002009-10-12T08:22:21.702-07:00Ooo I love it when you backpeddle Simon, did I hit...Ooo I love it when you backpeddle Simon, did I hit a nerve? Was your CBE (or is it 30 silver coins?) looking a bit wobbly there for a moment?<br />JoelyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-21215718567196279672009-10-11T23:45:19.967-07:002009-10-11T23:45:19.967-07:00I doubt I have a chip on my shoulder about Muslims...I doubt I have a chip on my shoulder about Muslims, Joely. I was just trying to show you how awful you sound. I have never had any truck at all with the doctrine of origianl sin. Why do you bring that into it? I think that there has been a fall, in the sense that we have become estranged from the friendship of God, but that is nothing to do with original sin. I would myself be annoyed if somebody came on here and told me that children were born with a taint of wickedness! What is it about me that makes you think I feel that way?Simon Webbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10865289865412656573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-73180113890420708082009-10-11T16:44:05.400-07:002009-10-11T16:44:05.400-07:00You seem to have a bit of a chip on your shoulder ...You seem to have a bit of a chip on your shoulder about Muslims Simon. I have not yet met a Muslim who wanted to stop me from parenting and educating in one way and make me do it another way. Unfortunately you are simply the latest in a long line of Christians who regularly think it is their prerogative to do so. The fact that you are not of the born again variety makes no difference to the fact that it is Christian theology which informs your view on autonomous ed. I freely admit not all Christians do this but for some it seems to go with the territory. If that were also my experience of Muslims and you were a Muslim attempting to force your theology on my family then I would be saying the same things. But it isn't and you are not. So I don't.<br />I find the doctrine of original sin and the attitude towards children that emerges from it thoroughly offensive and obnoxious, so perhaps you shouldn't be mentioning it on your blog because I visit here and it offends me? You may be a "for show" christian only Simon but your theology is poison and you have no right to try and foist it upon anyone.<br />JoelyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-19552974142428960352009-10-11T00:54:35.159-07:002009-10-11T00:54:35.159-07:00Joely said "But how many middle-class, middle...Joely said "But how many middle-class, middle-aged, white and male with extremist views on autonomous ed home educators are there?" <br /><br /><br />I have no idea...but logically Simon is not likely to be the only one- and I do know plenty of other anti AE ers. I assume Simon was however chosen to speak to the Select Comm because he was representative of the "Yes" campaign. Now he is therefore not representing you (or me) but he is presenting the "yes" campaign, just as the 3 group reps (and the other home educator who has now dropped out) were representative of those people who said "No" to Badman. You may not like what Simon has to say, but he is not claiming to represent you - and he does still fortunately have every right to express his views.Julienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-10946346234539208542009-10-10T23:50:16.463-07:002009-10-10T23:50:16.463-07:00I have this wonderful image in my mind now of stan...I have this wonderful image in my mind now of standing up in front of a committee of MPs, brandishing a Bible and crying, "Thus saith the Lord of Hosts..." It would almost be worth it just for the look on people's faces! One final point, Joely. I shall not be representing you at all at the select committee. There are reprsentatives of various organisations such as Education Otherwise and the NSPCC due to give evidence that day, but I am going in the capacity of a private citizen.Simon Webbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10865289865412656573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-17668993902617133632009-10-10T23:24:33.116-07:002009-10-10T23:24:33.116-07:00Joely, some of the things you are saying are so fr...Joely, some of the things you are saying are so frightful that I think you need to stop and think a bit. You claim that you are unhappy about being represented by a white, middle class man. I belong to UNISON, the public sector union and our branch secretary is a black woman. If some fool sidled up to me and said, "Here, I don't like being represented by a working class, black woman.", then I would regard that person as a pig-ignorant oaf. Need I say more?<br />The business about Christianity needs classification. Not everybody who attends church regularly is a Christian. I lived in Israel for some years and while there I worshipped in mosques and synagogues as well as churches. I adhere more to the teachings of the Old Testament than the New and according to my daughter I am not a Christian because I believe that there is only one God and that Jesus was the last and greatest of the prophets, rather than being God incarnate. I have even occasionally worshipped in Hindu temples in this country. I am hardly likely, therefore to pass on any Christian thelogy to the select committee. However, there are Christians visiting this Blog and perhaps you might display a little more cultural sensitivity towards them? Let's look at something you said and replace Christian with Muslim;<br /><br />"It's not really surprising that Simon thinks he has a monopoly on the truth, won't be moved from an illogical position no matter how much evidence comes his way and feels he has some kind of right to make us all do it his way. That seems to be standard operating procedure for some Muslims."<br /><br />Can you se the problem now? Just exercise a little more tact and also remember that church going, and also of course mosque going and synagogue going, are all social activities as well as religious practice. I go to church every Sunday because that's simply what I have done for years. I expect some genuine Christians would despise me! The idea of my peddling Christian theology to a House of Commons select committee has had my family in fits of laughter! I would say keep them coming Joely, but as I say if you are not careful you are going to offend somebody soon with all this nonsense.Simon Webbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10865289865412656573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-65384866999220658332009-10-10T14:50:30.514-07:002009-10-10T14:50:30.514-07:00No I'm sorry Julie, it's just not on. Simo...No I'm sorry Julie, it's just not on. Simon is not only Christian, he's also middle-class, middle-aged, white and male with extremist views on autonomous ed. What proportion of the HE community fits that description?<br /><br />We already know that Simon's views on autonomous ed are informed by his belief in the doctine of original sin. It's simply unacceptable to have Christian theology per Simon Webb anywhere near Govt policy that will affect people of all religions and none.<br /><br />Home educators are mostly female, there are many pagans, many muslims, many atheists, there are black home educators and brown home educators, middle class home educators, working class home educators, Gypsy, Roma and Traveller home educators, rich home educators, poor home educators, heterosexual home educators and homesexual home educators. But how many middle-class, middle-aged, white and male with extremist views on autonomous ed home educators are there?<br />JoelyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-90770674646055413082009-10-10T14:01:28.579-07:002009-10-10T14:01:28.579-07:00Joely said "the only person who will apparent...Joely said "the only person who will apparently be there on an "individual" basis is a white, middle-class, Christian, male who is extremely hostile to autonomous education."<br /><br />It could be argued Joely actually he may be fairly representative - well perhaps not on gender...but (as I have said somewhere here before) the biggest Christian email list is smaller than the EO one (although they do have list members in common) but isn't far behind Mike FW's UK HE list number wise, and since some of the more conservative Christians don't use computers, the balance maybe more equal than that. Then there are lots of Christian home educators who are against the review (I am one) but again there are other home educators who are either for the review or don't care about it....(I know quite a few actually) ... so the balance may not be too out!...Simon may not be in that much of a minority by your standards!!Julienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-21006643461010598442009-10-10T13:19:41.543-07:002009-10-10T13:19:41.543-07:00Can I count on your support then Simon if force is...Can I count on your support then Simon if force is used against me to use force against my child in order to comply with new regulations? <br />JoelyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-56183771783458345622009-10-10T13:18:30.693-07:002009-10-10T13:18:30.693-07:00How absolutely predictable that the only person wh...How absolutely predictable that the only person who will apparently be there on an "individual" basis is a white, middle-class, Christian, male who is extremely hostile to autonomous education. Frankly my integrity and ethics would compel me to stand down in favour of someone more representative. But then, I don't have this whole control thing going on.<br />JoelyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-55897594453953580912009-10-10T12:06:49.193-07:002009-10-10T12:06:49.193-07:00That's the fellow Julie. It's actually a b...That's the fellow Julie. It's actually a bit odd. When I did the famous piece for the TES, he was originally supposed to be the person responding to me. Somewhere down the line, he dropped out. Now the same thing seems to have happened again, apparently he is ill this time. I have no idea whether he works in a maintained school and has trouble getting permission from his LA to speak out in public on this subject. I know he gave an interview a while back. All the signs are that I am going to be the one and only home educating parent in the whole select committee process, which I think might not be very popular in some quarters! I have an idea that they are going to replace David Wright with another organisation rather than a private individual.Simon Webbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10865289865412656573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-62317988428213336712009-10-10T11:50:09.397-07:002009-10-10T11:50:09.397-07:00Ooh.. so David Wright was the man who had home edu...Ooh.. so David Wright was the man who had home educated his own children and was a head of an independent school - is that the right man? Wasn't he very symphathetic to home education and didn't want legislation? And he now isn't appearing??Julienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-33207598066367309442009-10-10T08:35:29.567-07:002009-10-10T08:35:29.567-07:00Can I count on your support then Simon if force is...Can I count on your support then Simon if force is used against me to use force against my child in order to comply with new regulations?<br />JoelyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-76144371310644558692009-10-10T08:33:05.149-07:002009-10-10T08:33:05.149-07:00You don't seem to be able to give a straight a...You don't seem to be able to give a straight answer Simon. You obfuscate like a seasoned politician.<br />JoelyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-55438037328515458392009-10-10T08:31:51.482-07:002009-10-10T08:31:51.482-07:00Over my dead body will my child be left alone with...Over my dead body will my child be left alone with a LA officer. Every paedophile in the land will be after that job and all the CRB checks and vetting databases in the world won't keep my child safe from a successful paedo - i.e one who has managed not to be caught or suspected.<br /><br />LA inspection could be a cover for child abuse. If I am guilty until proven innocent, they most definitely are.<br />JoelyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-12056790042026298802009-10-10T08:12:40.170-07:002009-10-10T08:12:40.170-07:00Graham Badman made twenty seven detailed recommend...Graham Badman made twenty seven detailed recommendations. Everything that he suggested will not be incorporated into a new law. Until we know which bits will be included, we are both in the dark. Some of what you are worried about, for example conforming to plans made twelve months in advance, is not mentioned at all in the recommendations. It is suggested that a plan should be made, certainly. There is nothing about conforming to it, let alone any sanctions if this is not done. I have already covered the idea that children will routinely be expected to speak alone to local authority officers.Simon Webbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10865289865412656573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-4325939682164397292009-10-10T07:50:51.757-07:002009-10-10T07:50:51.757-07:00"I don't think that there is any intentio..."I don't think that there is any intention to prevent autonomous home eduators from carrying on."<br /><br />On what basis do you think this?<br />Surely you have read the report?<br /><br />Parents will be required to coerce their children to:<br /><br />a) make and conform to plans up to 12 months in advance<br />b) perform or exhibit their learning on demand in front of an LA inspector<br />c) meet with said inspector and meet him alone<br /><br />None of those things are compatible with autonomous ed. So autonomous educators will have to stop being autonomous. The intention is there, in black and white in Badman's report. Yet when I ask you to explain your insistence that Badman's proposals will not outlaw HE you just tell me "it is a bit early to start getting hysterical about the attack on our rights. Let's wait and see."<br /><br />So please, knock yourself out, explain and support your view that <br /><br />"I don't think that there is any intention to prevent autonomous home eduators from carrying on"<br /><br />and your assertion that <br /><br />"I have no wish at all to coerce you into coercing your children. Nor do I wish to use the threat of force to make you parent in any particular fashion."<br /><br />when you apparently fully support Badman's proposals to use force to make me coerce my child?<br />JoelyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-46478461638882672622009-10-10T07:31:33.803-07:002009-10-10T07:31:33.803-07:00What an agressive individual you appear to be, Joe...What an agressive individual you appear to be, Joely. Exactly the sort of person, in fact, that I was writing about in the above post. I don't think that there is any intention to prevent autonomous home eduators from carrying on. You do think so. I assume that we read have much the same material on the subject and so it comes down to a matter of personal judgement. I don't think that you are bullshitting, I think that you genuinely believe that you are right about this. I also believe that I am right about it. We cannot both be right and so one of us is wrong. Which one that is will be revealed when and if the new law is passed. As I see it, until then we are both in a similar position.Simon Webbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10865289865412656573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-80106215604547833092009-10-10T06:42:10.145-07:002009-10-10T06:42:10.145-07:00So, you were bullshitting.
JoelySo, you were bullshitting.<br />JoelyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-31335045311790667612009-10-10T05:53:54.865-07:002009-10-10T05:53:54.865-07:00Badman can't do a thing. He's made recomme...Badman can't do a thing. He's made recommendations to the DCSF, some of which they will probably try to put into a new Safeguarding Bill. I am saying that until we know what is going to be put into that Bill, it is a bit early to start getting hysterical about the attack on our rights. Let's wait and see.Simon Webbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10865289865412656573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-89123334885950332182009-10-10T05:47:24.150-07:002009-10-10T05:47:24.150-07:00"Fawning around the corridors of power",..."Fawning around the corridors of power", yes I like that, Joely. You are saying then, if I understand you correctly, that I was wrong to agree to give eviden to the select committee? I might mention that the other home educating parent who was called to give evidence is actually a headmaster. Do you feel that he would be more likely to represent your views effectively? Don't worry though, David Wright will not now be giving evidence on Wednesday.Simon Webbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10865289865412656573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-11854208040943922312009-10-10T05:44:54.946-07:002009-10-10T05:44:54.946-07:00"Well, we don't yet know what the provisi..."Well, we don't yet know what the provisions of any new legislation will be."<br /><br />So when you accuse autonomous eds of unreasonably suspecting that they will be prevented from educating and parenting according to their own integrity and vociferously assert that Badman will do no such thing, you are actually just bullshitting. Right?<br />JoelyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-19066731401384496782009-10-10T05:40:13.799-07:002009-10-10T05:40:13.799-07:00If you were Muslim Simon and you were fawning arou...If you were Muslim Simon and you were fawning around the corridors of power trying to impose your worldview on my family, like you are now, yeah I think I'd be saying exactly the same.<br />JoelyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-46560664171560421512009-10-10T03:19:31.275-07:002009-10-10T03:19:31.275-07:00Anonymous just copied and pasted words written by ...Anonymous just copied and pasted words written by Simon (see the linked article) and replaced 'autonomous' with 'structured' in an attempt to show Simon why people might be upset at what he has said (I believe that's what they intended anyway). Personally I've never seen anyone make such a statement about normal structured home education education, except possible about the extreme hot housing examples that have demonstrably led to harm. As I think you will probably agree, autonomous could equally well replace structured in your reply and still be accurate. In my experience too, a mixed approach is the most common. I think home educators fall within a typical bell curve with highly structured, parent directed home educators in a minority at one end and completely autonomous educators in a minority at the other, the vast majority falling somewhere between. I've never understood Simon's insistence that autonomous education is the most common approach there is no evidence, research or anecdotal, to support this theory and plenty of evidence that the bell curve is likely to be accurate.Sharonnoreply@blogger.com