tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post2507442221880427878..comments2024-03-20T00:30:11.702-07:00Comments on Home Education Heretic: The task of SisyphusSimon Webbhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10865289865412656573noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-81798044500967083882012-10-07T05:45:14.123-07:002012-10-07T05:45:14.123-07:00I don't think that many school children have a...I don't think that many school children have a genuinely free choice to attend school or not, but if they do I cannot see how they are failing to self direct their own education, the basic definition of autonomous education. But practically I think most people mean home educated children. At most it's possible that some include children who have been home educated but are currently trying school through their own choice.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-65637697924360025712012-10-07T04:49:41.996-07:002012-10-07T04:49:41.996-07:00'Can I sneak in here, Edith? I think there is ...'Can I sneak in here, Edith? I think there is a perception that most home educators are autonomous, but it was Simon who pointed out that there is research done by Mike Fortune Wood that shows this isn't necessarily so.'<br /><br />There is of course also the problem that some of those commenting here in the past have suggested that because an autonomously educated child can ask for formal teaching without losing her autonomy, this means that a child choosing to go to school is still being autonomously educated. This raises the possibility that an enormous number of children who look forward to and enjoy school are in fact being autonomously educated. I think it would be helpful to know whether when the people here are talking of autonomous education, they are referring only to home edcuated children.<br /><br />Simon Webbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10865289865412656573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-56648070060218166672012-10-07T04:26:18.732-07:002012-10-07T04:26:18.732-07:00"Also-there is a difference between autonomy ..."Also-there is a difference between autonomy and unschooling? What is it?"<br /><br />I'm not sure, I only mention the split in the study because the respondents could choose between autonomous and unschooling (and several other styles). 29% chose autonomous education and 14% chose unschooling. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-32613231493646742552012-10-07T04:14:14.260-07:002012-10-07T04:14:14.260-07:00"I don't spend much time on fora so could..."I don't spend much time on fora so could most certainly be wrong about how many home educators nationally are autonomous. I'd say, local to me, among those I know well, autonomous education is the norm."<br /><br />So these families allow their children complete freedom in their learning choices? I must admit I'm surprised that different areas of the country can vary so much. I've attended a few groups in two parts of the country and in both of those areas the majority used a mixed approach. For instance, literacy and numeracy may be directed by the parent whilst project work is chosen by their child. I only know a few families that allow their children complete control.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-63735062327793808602012-10-07T04:08:00.353-07:002012-10-07T04:08:00.353-07:00"I'm afraid I'm not familiar with the..."I'm afraid I'm not familiar with the Centre for Personalised Education"<br /><br />http://www.personalisededucationnow.org.uk/<br /><br />"I can't really comment, I'm afraid I'm a little fussy about studies and do prefer to see the methodology and where possible raw data before I decide whether to give it weight."<br /><br />The Face of Home-based Education 1: Who, Why and How?<br /><br />http://educationalhereticspress.org.uk/shop/article_09/The-face-of-home-based-education-1%3A-Who,-why-and-how.html?shop_param=cid%3D1%26aid%3D09%26<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-43649624186834400302012-10-07T03:49:56.408-07:002012-10-07T03:49:56.408-07:00'So my vote now is for a blog post or better s...'So my vote now is for a blog post or better still, a series, on exploring London (pref Roman and pre-Roman) history on foot...'<br /><br />I happy to oblige and will put a few such walks up later today. I dare say that some autonomous home educator will attack me for this and claim that it will cause me to have blood on my hands, but this is a risk I shall have to take!<br /><br />Simon Webbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10865289865412656573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-13254570984819268262012-10-07T03:48:00.157-07:002012-10-07T03:48:00.157-07:00Someone just quoted your newspaper article, it was...Someone just quoted your newspaper article, it was you that decided that a correction was necessary! Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-26434420392413083182012-10-07T03:45:38.912-07:002012-10-07T03:45:38.912-07:00So my vote now is for a blog post or better still,...So my vote now is for a blog post or better still, a series, on exploring London (pref Roman and pre-Roman) history on foot...Edithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07054536553120344635noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-56173383480786502692012-10-07T03:42:46.013-07:002012-10-07T03:42:46.013-07:00oh goodness, sorry, I really didn't want to op...oh goodness, sorry, I really didn't want to open a can of worms! Most of my experience of home educators is from real life, I don't spend much time on fora so could most certainly be wrong about how many home educators nationally are autonomous. I'd say, local to me, among those I know well, autonomous education is the norm. However, what I do think is really lacking is well written blogs like this one about the experience of structured homeschoolers. So regardless of whether there are actually a lot of structured homeschoolers, they don't seem to be represented in the blogosphere (although that could easily be my inadequate searching skills!). <br /><br />I'm afraid I'm not familiar with the Centre for Personalised Education nor the particular study you mention so I can't really comment, I'm afraid I'm a little fussy about studies and do prefer to see the methodology and where possible raw data before I decide whether to give it weight. <br /><br />Also-there is a difference between autonomy and unschooling? What is it? I'm surprised, tbh I thought unschooling was an American term whereas autonomous was the British one.Edithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07054536553120344635noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-77113553322619910872012-10-07T03:40:22.295-07:002012-10-07T03:40:22.295-07:00It's a very strange thing, that even when I be...It's a very strange thing, that even when I bend over backwards to make a post as innocuous and uncontroversial as humanly possible, there are those who manage to find cause for one of those endless, pointless wrangles about which I hint in my post!Simon Webbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10865289865412656573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-55000650013780609002012-10-07T03:23:05.256-07:002012-10-07T03:23:05.256-07:00I'm not sure if it makes a difference but the ...I'm not sure if it makes a difference but the autonomous/unschooling group splits down into 29% autonomous education and 14% unschooling.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-73754057540025779072012-10-07T03:11:36.315-07:002012-10-07T03:11:36.315-07:00You also said,
"You say that I have no subst...You also said,<br /><br /><i>"You say that I have no substantial grounds for believing it to be the case that autonomous education is the most popular method among British home educators. Of course, one cannot be sure. A couple of years on the HE-UK message board, EO and Herts-HE boards all tend to suggest that this is so."</i>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-73191010740724569802012-10-07T03:00:15.309-07:002012-10-07T03:00:15.309-07:00'Simon claimed in a 2009 newspaper article tha...'Simon claimed in a 2009 newspaper article that autonomous education is the most popular method used by home educators in the UK'<br /><br />And as I have explained before, ad nauseum, I originally wrote, 'one of the most popular'. Sub editors often alter thoughtful and qualifying remarks of this sort in the interests of creating greater controversy.Simon Webbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10865289865412656573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-12728563986326423432012-10-07T02:55:58.224-07:002012-10-07T02:55:58.224-07:00Simon claimed in a 2009 newspaper article that aut...Simon claimed in a 2009 newspaper article that autonomous education is the most popular method used by home educators in the UK.<br /><br />http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/schools/simon-webb-we-must-get-tough-on-home-schooling-1764348.html<br /><br />But a 2001 study by Mike FW for The Centre for Personalised Education found that 47% follow a flexible, mixed approach to HE, 43% follow an autonomous/unschooling style, and 10% followed a structured/school at home/formal approach. The study found that learning was initiated by a mixture of both adults and children in 72% of HE families, only 17% claiming that learning was primarily initiated by the child and 11% by the adult. <br /><br />This chimes with my experience of home educators in several groups and also at various HE camps. Most home educators I've met use a mixed approach, quite often having a couple of hours of adult guided study in the morning leaving afternoons for child initiated/directed study, for instance. As I think Simon has suggested before, any selection bias in Mike's study is likely to favour the autonomous end of the spectrum since his questionnaire may have been more likely to reach autonomous educators.<br /><br />The study also found that 38% used parts of the National Curriculum whilst 62% did not use it at all, and 25% use curriculum style books frequently and 37% use them sometimes. As to timetables, 25% followed a timetable closely, 37% used a timetable flexibly and 38% not at all.Sarahnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-27251298631523442512012-10-07T02:35:06.940-07:002012-10-07T02:35:06.940-07:00' But I thought it looked great'
I am gla...' But I thought it looked great'<br /><br />I am glad to hear you say so, Edith. Look closely and you will see that I wrote the Guardian article myself! Always best to write about your own books, before others have a chance to get in with something unfavourable.Simon Webbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10865289865412656573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-77112496962162375742012-10-07T02:29:02.388-07:002012-10-07T02:29:02.388-07:00errrr the guardian i think. There you go http://ww...errrr the guardian i think. There you go http://www.guardian.co.uk/travel/2011/aug/12/londons-ancient-history<br /><br />oh its not a review, sorry, its an article. But I thought it looked great. I'm always on the look out for stuff like this (there is an extent to which home educating my kids is just a clever excuse to buy huge amounts of books and read them)Edithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07054536553120344635noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-13555119885821300102012-10-07T02:24:25.742-07:002012-10-07T02:24:25.742-07:00'How very exciting! I did read a review of Une...'How very exciting! I did read a review of Unearthing London in the paper a while back'<br /><br />Did you, by George! Which paper was that Edith, if you don't mind my asking? Not Pagan Dawn, surely?Simon Webbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10865289865412656573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-48515429595409171312012-10-07T02:17:39.769-07:002012-10-07T02:17:39.769-07:00How very exciting! I did read a review of Unearthi...How very exciting! I did read a review of Unearthing London in the paper a while back and had it in my Amazon basket. Have just ordered a couple of your books now (Unearthing London and Roman London) and am really looking forward to reading them on my next trip down there, there's nothing like reading local history while you're on the ground. I do especially love London history, the way the layers all jostle together, and my father's family has lived in London for as long as records seem to go back. And any excuse for a wander round London! My kids do love the Museum of London but we've found it quite quickly outgrown. Edithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07054536553120344635noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-22414513249171956522012-10-07T01:59:59.845-07:002012-10-07T01:59:59.845-07:00Bet you it won't, Simon! But I would like to k...Bet you it won't, Simon! But I would like to know more, and, especially, how you balanced your daughter's tendency to think for herself with the need to produce approved opinion to get the grades that'll get her where she can think for itself.Anne Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00194299468706689614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-16891187956785374312012-10-07T01:58:53.167-07:002012-10-07T01:58:53.167-07:00Can I sneak in here, Edith? I think there is a per...Can I sneak in here, Edith? I think there is a perception that most home educators are autonomous, but it was Simon who pointed out that there is research done by Mike Fortune Wood that shows this isn't necessarily so.<br /><br />(And I would say that, because I'm an administrator on a structured HE forum where we talk a lot about the everyday life side of HE and, most of all, how to get our children the education and life skills that'll get them where they want to go.) Anne Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00194299468706689614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-62992787537842243362012-10-07T01:53:21.670-07:002012-10-07T01:53:21.670-07:00I am indeed the author of Unearthing London! In it...I am indeed the author of Unearthing London! In it I explore the folklore and mythology of prehistoric Britain and look for traces of ritual practice in the area that would later become London' the horned god, cult of the severed head and so on.<br /><br />I am actually thinking of focusing here for a while on the techniques which I used for my daughter's education. This might prove less controversial! Simon Webbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10865289865412656573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-56336735943235923952012-10-07T01:37:20.766-07:002012-10-07T01:37:20.766-07:00Yes, I'd be very interested to hear more about...Yes, I'd be very interested to hear more about your experiences of home educating your daughter. As a relatively structured type, I'd be rather interested to hear a lot more about your experience of teaching your daughter. I'd say the current accepted normal practice in HE circles right now is autonomous, which is great, but it does mean that those of us who have not chosen that path get relatively little chance to hear from those who have done it already.<br /><br />I'm in Wales, by the way-I'm not abandoning the Welsh! But I'm really much more interested in ideas and inspiration, at the end of the day we fight what we need to fight, we win or lose or draw even, but my real life work right now is getting my kids a good education.<br /><br />Oh and while we are on the subject are you the simon webb who wrote Unearthing London (eg http://www.guardian.co.uk/travel/2011/aug/12/londons-ancient-history)? As a Londoner by birth, not to mention a history geek, it looks absolutely fascinating and I'm certainly buying it for our next grandparent pilgrimage in a few weeks. Could we have a bit more info about that please?Edithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07054536553120344635noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-37470738438813727482012-10-07T01:29:19.419-07:002012-10-07T01:29:19.419-07:00The books are westerns and also local history stuf...The books are westerns and also local history stuff. If you look at my name on Amazon, you will get some idea of the sort of things. I have toyed with the idea of a personal account of home education and may get round to it one day. Simon Webbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10865289865412656573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-9522534898805496482012-10-07T01:22:22.827-07:002012-10-07T01:22:22.827-07:00What are these books you're writing? I would ...What are these books you're writing? I would be interested in a book about your home education journey wih Simone. There hasn't, as I know it, been such a book written in the UK by a British author. I for one would read it, and judging by your notoriety, you would have a guaranteed readership of a couple thousand at least!<br /><br />I have very little understanding of what the welsh proposals are about, so if you refuse to cover the topic I shall remain completely ignorant as I'm not a follower of many HE blogs.Always arguing herenoreply@blogger.com