tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post259882220335761476..comments2024-03-20T00:30:11.702-07:00Comments on Home Education Heretic: Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebensSimon Webbhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10865289865412656573noreply@blogger.comBlogger54125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-19168445314169991352013-11-24T17:07:33.244-08:002013-11-24T17:07:33.244-08:00No, the implication being that how the powers of t...No, the implication being that how the powers of the state are used with reference to individuals and families is a fair indicator of the state of that nation.<br /><br />I'm sure you would like to know a lot more about them Simon. However, the privacy and freedom of one family is more important than what an army of nasty detractors might believe. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-74913464458471989912013-11-24T14:53:56.290-08:002013-11-24T14:53:56.290-08:00Simon wrote,
"This was their model and unless...Simon wrote,<br />"This was their model and unless those props were present, they could not believe that they were actually being educated. I suppose that it might be possible for a child who had never been to school to crave for such reassurance, but I can't think it at all common."<br /><br />You can only imagine that a child would study in a structured way from books or course materials either because they are compelled to do so or because they crave reassurance? Really? You cannot imagine that a child might freely wish and choose to gain a particular body of knowledge, and also recognise that the most efficient and enjoyable way to learn this might be from a course compiled by fellow enthusiasts? Has Simone never chosen freely to learn anything from a non-fiction book, textbook or in other structured ways such as courses? I find that as difficult to imagine as you appear to find the opposite. But they do say that truth is often stranger than fiction.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-42553375544117249962013-11-24T14:41:35.237-08:002013-11-24T14:41:35.237-08:00Simon wrote,
"'Sometimes the child hersel...Simon wrote,<br />"'Sometimes the child herself chooses to learn in a structured way. '<br /><br />Hard to imagine this happening with a child who has had no experience of school!"<br /><br />Is it really that hard to imagine? My child never went to school and learnt autonomously throughout her childhood. She chose to study a few correspondence courses (an English Language course, an OU creative writing course and an Open College of the Arts art course). She is now in her final year at University after gaining BTECs at college (without a GCSE to her name) and all chosen by herself. There, you don't have to imagine it now.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-5648137014439657092013-11-24T10:01:57.533-08:002013-11-24T10:01:57.533-08:00'A nation can be judged on how it treats the l...'A nation can be judged on how it treats the least powerful.'<br /><br />The implication being of course, that home educators fall, as a matter of course, into this category of being among, 'the least powerful'. Not really true of course; we have to bear in mind that our present queen is herself a product of home education. Some home educators are powerless and weak; others are not. If you wish me to believe that this particular family belong to the class of, 'the least powerful', then I would need to know a little more about them.Simon Webbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10865289865412656573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-32421685361749053452013-11-24T09:17:41.943-08:002013-11-24T09:17:41.943-08:00But many of the home educated children I know who ...But many of the home educated children I know who have never been to school enjoy doing workbooks and attending workshops and so on. A common aim for home educators is to inculcate a love of learning in their children and I am sure you were no exception. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-69007056532097250202013-11-24T09:14:59.731-08:002013-11-24T09:14:59.731-08:00'I think you will find many children with no e...'I think you will find many children with no experience of school enjoying a structured education and seeking more of it.'<br /><br />All the home educated children that I have known who wanted exercise books, sitting at a table and so on, had been to school. This was their model and unless those props were present, they could not believe that they were actually being educated. I suppose that it might be possible for a child who had never been to school to crave for such reassurance, but I can't think it at all common.Simon Webbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10865289865412656573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-22253130179832722392013-11-24T09:14:10.864-08:002013-11-24T09:14:10.864-08:00Ha ha, I rather think you don't! Thank you for...Ha ha, I rather think you don't! Thank you for calling it "neat" but it is not at all a false conflation. In as much as the autonomy and independence of one family is threatened, so are we all threatened. Or perhaps you are an island? <br /><br />A nation can be judged on how it treats the least powerful.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-8868438000771087822013-11-24T09:04:03.597-08:002013-11-24T09:04:03.597-08:00There are many different definitions, I agree. I m...There are many different definitions, I agree. I myself try not to think in such black and white terms. I think you will find many children with no experience of school enjoying a structured education and seeking more of it. Was this not the case with Simone?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-73769059511362814302013-11-24T09:02:10.815-08:002013-11-24T09:02:10.815-08:00'Sometimes the child herself chooses to learn ...'Sometimes the child herself chooses to learn in a structured way. '<br /><br />Hard to imagine this happening with a child who has had no experience of school! It is reassuring to discover that every home educated child in the United Kingdom is being autonomously educated. Mind, I have an idea that not every autonomous educator would agree with you about this.Simon Webbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10865289865412656573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-62686379959085530012013-11-24T08:56:26.858-08:002013-11-24T08:56:26.858-08:00I am not that person, no. In answer to your first ...I am not that person, no. In answer to your first question I imagine most home educated children enjoy some autonomy in their learning, otherwise I cannot imagine them being inspired to learn very much. There are probably some who are marched to a desk and kept there all day to work on subjects that do not interest them, but it is hard to imagine what a caring parent would hope to gain from this, is it not? It seems like most home education is a combination of autonomy and structure. Sometimes the child herself chooses to learn in a structured way. This might have been the case with Simone?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-17771389647666002332013-11-24T08:50:43.889-08:002013-11-24T08:50:43.889-08:00'It is just a shame you did not know them for ...'It is just a shame you did not know them for what they were.'<br /><br />So it is then your contention that every home educated child in this country is receiving an autonomous education? I really think that it would help us to get a better grasp of this, were you to describe what you think an education which was not autonomous would look like. By the way, are you sure you're not the person who thinks that standing next to a social worker can somehow cause one's integrity to be sucked away? I ask, because I am still hoping to learn more about this.Simon Webbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10865289865412656573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-17498245912114173252013-11-24T08:45:54.584-08:002013-11-24T08:45:54.584-08:00From some of your descriptions about Simone's ...From some of your descriptions about Simone's early home education, it is safe to say she enjoyed more autonomy in her learning than most school children. Your accounts of this have been uplifting and inspiring. It is just a shame you did not know them for what they were. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-64452206238611761202013-11-24T08:43:53.846-08:002013-11-24T08:43:53.846-08:00'My definition would be any learning that is s...'My definition would be any learning that is student-led.'<br /><br />I think I see what you are saying. Since it is impossible to imagine any home educating parents who would actually discourage his or her child from learning something that she was interested in, you are saying that every home educated child in the country is receiving an autonomous education. We can, I suppose, go further and say that since all children at school are similarly free to learn things which are not prescribed by the curriculum, then they too are all being autonomously educated?<br /><br />It might help if you were to describe an education which you would not describe as autonomous.Simon Webbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10865289865412656573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-49600578667348247192013-11-24T08:39:12.101-08:002013-11-24T08:39:12.101-08:00My definition would be any learning that is studen...My definition would be any learning that is student-led. So it would follow the child's interests and there would be no resistance on the child's part because she would be absorbed and happy in her work. From what I have read here about Simone's education and as you confirm above, there were elements of it that were like this. You were therefore at times an autonomous home educator. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-2047778928729329252013-11-24T08:35:35.414-08:002013-11-24T08:35:35.414-08:00'No, I am talking about the 'all sorts of ...'No, I am talking about the 'all sorts of other agreeable byways in education' you mention above. '<br /><br />Ah, I think I am getting your drift now. You appear to be saying that if a child is allowed to learn things in addition to the set curriculum, then she is an autonomously educated child. Is that right? So I suppose that if a child was attending a fanatically strict and academic school, you would define her as being autonomously educated if she could join an astronomy or chess club; in addition to the compulsory subjects. Does this sum up your definition of autonomous education?Simon Webbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10865289865412656573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-36080489388633794072013-11-24T08:31:19.126-08:002013-11-24T08:31:19.126-08:00No, I am talking about the 'all sorts of other...No, I am talking about the 'all sorts of other agreeable byways in education' you mention above. Autonomous learning and structure are not mutually exclusive. It is steep learning curve, is it not? A matter of some complexity. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-43215180455675764832013-11-24T08:28:58.541-08:002013-11-24T08:28:58.541-08:00'So you autonomously home educated without rea...'So you autonomously home educated without realising it - and then spent considerable time and energy lambasting autonomous home education? And then realised that you too had been an autonomous home educator? '<br /><br />You seem to be saying, if I understand you correctly, that if a parent imposes a strict curriculum upon a child, decides what she must know and learn each year, gives her no choice about learning to read, write and perform arithmetical operations, insists that she sits down at a table to work for two or three hours a day and decides that the child must take IGCSEs and even chooses the subjects that will be taken; this is an autonomous education. I just want to check that I understand what you are saying here. Simon Webbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10865289865412656573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-43198790916827701562013-11-24T08:22:37.763-08:002013-11-24T08:22:37.763-08:00So you autonomously home educated without realisin...So you autonomously home educated without realising it - and then spent considerable time and energy lambasting autonomous home education? And then realised that you too had been an autonomous home educator? <br /><br />In the light of this, it's not surprising that you want to focus on another family's crisis. A person could almost sympathise with you. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-75197234769758739852013-11-24T08:21:13.121-08:002013-11-24T08:21:13.121-08:00Curses, I should have also mentioned that other st...Curses, I should have also mentioned that other standby of some in this area, when they find some obstinate person who won't agree with them. I refer of course to suggesting that person must be mentally ill;<br /><br />'Perhaps you need to adjust your dose a little?'<br /><br />All that remains now is for somebody to diagnose me as having autistic features and then we will have the complete set of home educating debating tricks!Simon Webbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10865289865412656573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-12315077332377009842013-11-24T08:18:17.073-08:002013-11-24T08:18:17.073-08:00'Is your silence on this issue an indication o...'Is your silence on this issue an indication of your forthcoming apology to all of your fellow autonomous home educators for your many ignorant attacks on them, before you actually did your research?'<br /><br />It was rather caused by having a shower! As far as my daughter's education was concerned, I worked to the strictest plan of study; one of my own devising. I knew a year in advance what I intended her to study and then learn. I decided when she was eleven which IGCSEs she should be taking and what marks I expected her to get in them. It is quite true that we found time for all sorts of other agreeable byways in education. If this is what you mean by an autonomous education, then yes, my daughter was autonomously educated. None of this has ever been a secret.<br />Simon Webbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10865289865412656573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-73412950407880949842013-11-24T08:03:42.491-08:002013-11-24T08:03:42.491-08:00Is your silence on this issue an indication of you...Is your silence on this issue an indication of your forthcoming apology to all of your fellow autonomous home educators for your many ignorant attacks on them, before you actually did your research?<br /><br />And if you now understand the value of autonomous learning, do you also understand the damage done to it by excessive official oversight?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-14625345968445711532013-11-24T08:03:23.807-08:002013-11-24T08:03:23.807-08:00Nobody is asking for your money. The appeal is clo...Nobody is asking for your money. The appeal is closed. Those who were happy with the level of disclosure and supported the cause contributed. Those who were not did not. What are you hoping to achieve by raking up history, generously salting it with your own spin and publishing it?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-58720175709136826002013-11-24T07:58:29.727-08:002013-11-24T07:58:29.727-08:00'I didn't say that.'
Another problem ...'I didn't say that.'<br /><br />Another problem with so many anonymous people commenting here!Simon Webbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10865289865412656573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-37177698198447387582013-11-24T07:58:14.819-08:002013-11-24T07:58:14.819-08:00" I meant that you were representing or putti..." I meant that you were representing or putting forward the ideology of militant home education"<br />I absolutely refute that assertion. I have no knowledge of any such ideology. Your imagination seems to be running wild today. Perhaps you need to adjust your dose a little?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-1841024568698494892013-11-24T07:57:28.890-08:002013-11-24T07:57:28.890-08:00Incidentally, when in the original post I mention...Incidentally, when in the original post I mentioned that tactics of, 'foolishness, lies and deliberate evasion, so often used by a certain type of home educator, I should have added, 'the threat of legal action'. We saw this above and it too is a recurring leitmotif in British home education. Anybody asking too many questions is sure, sooner or later, to be threatened with either the libel courts or police! Simon Webbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10865289865412656573noreply@blogger.com