tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post3156699219428685360..comments2024-03-20T00:30:11.702-07:00Comments on Home Education Heretic: The All-Party Parliamentary Group on Home educationSimon Webbhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10865289865412656573noreply@blogger.comBlogger109125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-45961308867709514882013-11-25T11:56:22.764-08:002013-11-25T11:56:22.764-08:00Thank you for explaining how the proactive amongst...Thank you for explaining how the proactive amongst us think. I wish we saw explanations like this more often. It would help those of us who would rather do nothing - for fear that doing something makes matters worse - to at least understand some of the reasons for future changes. I wish we could have had the debate first though, rather than after the suggestions have been officially made and the wheels put in motion. We would feel a lot less disregarded in our views. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-90587393699159682192013-11-25T00:40:13.715-08:002013-11-25T00:40:13.715-08:00"my guess is that most public sector workers ..."my guess is that most public sector workers would feel uncomfortable about a small minority of children being outside their system."<br /><br />Tell us something we don't know. Tell us, how do we stop LAs when they gang together against us independently of the APPG?<br /><br />I'd hoped that most home educators would actually value education enough to understand that it might be possible to enlighten even those public sector workers so that they see that HE is not the problem some of them think.<br /><br />Of course, some might be difficult to budge because of their vested interests in monitoring and control, but openness and scrutiny - with home educators involved - is the only hope of handling this.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-472922775993264972013-11-24T13:34:29.476-08:002013-11-24T13:34:29.476-08:00"This new organised body of public sector wor..."This new organised body of public sector workers will not be a trivial worry under a Labour government. It will probably be one of the main instruments of our downfall. This is from a realistic, not a fear driven mindset. Just think back to the Badman review and imagine that again, plus this new body. It's not going to be on our side for long, is it?"<br /><br />I'm amazed that anyone believes that this sort of body won't exist without APPG engagement. Some LAs are already talking to each other about dealing with HE across county boundaries, simply because it's not necessarily cost effective for each LA to do its own thing.<br /><br />The only question at issue is whether this happens with or without our influence. Those of us keen to see engagement via the APPG (and I have no actual connection with it in any way) don't want to talk to politicians any more than anyone else, but we can't keep our heads up our bottoms with impunity forever.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-3493060820352123562013-11-24T05:56:35.943-08:002013-11-24T05:56:35.943-08:00For helping to keep regulations at bay. Surely tha...For helping to keep regulations at bay. Surely that's the reason for setting it up?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-54516863784336727382013-11-24T05:46:45.178-08:002013-11-24T05:46:45.178-08:00In some LAs though, where the HE community has bee...In some LAs though, where the HE community has been speaking to them, helping them to understand it and stay out of its way, like parts of Hants, the LA has retreated to the point of there being no inspections at all any more as they were seen as a waste of money. (My understanding.) <br /><br />If only other HE communities had been prepared to discuss with the LAs, done that ground work etc. We might now be looking at a potential future body which was largely 'on our side', as you put it.<br /><br />PS, who said anything about 'relying' on it? For what?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-61874270459469655672013-11-24T00:41:33.139-08:002013-11-24T00:41:33.139-08:00I said "one of the main instruments" and...I said "one of the main instruments" and my guess is that most public sector workers would feel uncomfortable about a small minority of children being outside their system. To rely on a body of such people to defend that position when they don't have to is risky in the extreme.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-76547045801760349582013-11-23T23:15:25.152-08:002013-11-23T23:15:25.152-08:00Are there sides? Is every LA really out to get us?...Are there sides? Is every LA really out to get us? Is a not-yet-existent body really going to be 'our downfall'?<br /><br />Wow!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-50533156895484122222013-11-23T06:41:49.322-08:002013-11-23T06:41:49.322-08:00This new organised body of public sector workers w...This new organised body of public sector workers will not be a trivial worry under a Labour government. It will probably be one of the main instruments of our downfall. This is from a realistic, not a fear driven mindset. Just think back to the Badman review and imagine that again, plus this new body. It's not going to be on our side for long, is it? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-56138222271673518502013-11-22T23:01:27.140-08:002013-11-22T23:01:27.140-08:00LOL! Exactly.LOL! Exactly.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-85156528843734609892013-11-22T14:05:19.386-08:002013-11-22T14:05:19.386-08:00"You go there to make deals on behalf of all ..."You go there to make deals on behalf of all home educators, whether you openly state this or not. Even if you deny it, it is still what you are doing."<br /><br />This argument is an attempt to manipulate people and processes by those who pretend that they don't want to engage. <br /><br />If you don't engage, you can't then expect to set the rules for those that do. Don't like it? Tough. You can't expect to eat your cake, still have it and demand other people's cake too.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-43509158707996469982013-11-22T03:52:04.096-08:002013-11-22T03:52:04.096-08:00Oh, it's omni-present.Oh, it's omni-present.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-74755709549407223662013-11-22T03:41:49.392-08:002013-11-22T03:41:49.392-08:00I should add that I don't mean "fear-driv...I should add that I don't mean "fear-driven mindset" to be as offensive as it sounds; we're all driven by fear at times, and the work of many state organisations is predicated on fear. But it's frequently fear of the wrong thing; we focus on dealing with our fear of the small, sometimes trivial things, while ignoring the big problems that are more dangerous.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-35296205565577313282013-11-22T03:19:42.761-08:002013-11-22T03:19:42.761-08:00Interesting; you seem to have the same fear-driven...Interesting; you seem to have the same fear-driven mindset as the LA workers we're all concerned about - not to mention the larger body of the they-must-be-up-to-something community.<br /><br />Such bodies of people have always been with us; the faint glimmer of hope I see for the outcome of the APPG is that it might be a little more informed, open and accountable than it otherwise would be.<br /><br />That leads to the questions we should ask of the APPG instead of wringing our hands over constitutional issues (I don't wish to demean those altogether, but we live in a very imperfect political world):<br /><br />What mechanisms will be set in place to ensure that the new body is open, accountable and maintains a dialogue that represents the views of all home educators?<br /><br />Maybe I'll post that on Satan's latest thread.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-18185067600861383802013-11-22T02:55:59.798-08:002013-11-22T02:55:59.798-08:00And what do you think this new professional body o...And what do you think this new professional body of public sector workers will become under a Labour government?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-44144690983724055172013-11-22T02:51:30.697-08:002013-11-22T02:51:30.697-08:00I'm not doing anything with the APPG, but I...I'm not doing anything with the APPG, but I'm glad that someone is. It's time that some people faced the nasty reality of the prospect of a Labour administration coming at us like a steamroller. Petty procedural wrangling over the constitution of the APPG will seem trivial by comparison.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-91775723138740481022013-11-22T02:30:40.089-08:002013-11-22T02:30:40.089-08:00Ah! Godwin's already. I wondered when it would...Ah! Godwin's already. I wondered when it would surface. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-49033734640678181012013-11-22T02:16:39.807-08:002013-11-22T02:16:39.807-08:00'unethical', rather.'unethical', rather.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-36057787831979115652013-11-22T02:15:07.633-08:002013-11-22T02:15:07.633-08:00Someone else adding something new to the list of i...Someone else adding something new to the list of insults? It started as just 'enethical' now it's a lot more. Anyone want to add anything else to the list of motives? Perhaps they are all secret members of the Rothschild Family? Dress up as Nazis in their spare time? Torture kittens?<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-71935655179471624292013-11-22T02:09:26.757-08:002013-11-22T02:09:26.757-08:00Not necessarily power, money, glory or lack of eth...Not necessarily power, money, glory or lack of ethics. Could be just thoughtlessness, or gullibility. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-20535647566153233082013-11-22T02:03:25.612-08:002013-11-22T02:03:25.612-08:00To tick the box of consultation and engagement, th...To tick the box of consultation and engagement, they don't need to claim any such thing. The very fact that there are sufficient home educators willing to go and engage in dialogue is enough for any action (like this new professional body) to be carried out without compunction. You go there to make deals on behalf of all home educators, whether you openly state this or not. Even if you deny it, it is still what you are doing. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-3581324106723367422013-11-21T23:55:40.013-08:002013-11-21T23:55:40.013-08:00No problem if you don't want to engage with ce...<br />No problem if you don't want to engage with central government. Although that's not the point of some of the APPG meetings. The one in August for example was about engaging with schools exams officers and examination boards in order to level the playing field for home educators wishing to sit exams. (All this is clearly evident in the online report available for all to read.)<br /><br />However, if you don't wish to attend APPG meetings for whatever reason, that is your prerogative. I can respect that. <br /><br />What I don't respect is your claiming that those who do attend are in it for 'power, money, glory' etc or as a result of a lack of ethics. That is quite simply stupid. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-8495913902386743512013-11-21T17:45:26.031-08:002013-11-21T17:45:26.031-08:00Except it isn't a straw man, is it. The basis...Except it isn't a straw man, is it. The basis of the complaint against those who engage with the APPG is that they are claiming to represent the whole HE community, but I've yet to see the slightest justification for that implausible claim.<br /><br />I don't have any problem with people not wanting to engage, but I have a problem with their subset who wish to impose their views about non-engagement on everyone else.<br /><br />I've had nothing to do with the APPG; if I was invited to take part then it's likely I'd take the opportunity, but I don't think that's likely to happen as I see no reason why I would be invited, and I have no problem with that. I'm happy to follow what's happening and if I don't like it, I'll write to the chair and members to express my views.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-52514120155952800422013-11-21T15:01:22.559-08:002013-11-21T15:01:22.559-08:00Are you people just incapable of believing that so...Are you people just incapable of believing that some of us do not want to engage with central government? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-981119192252665132013-11-21T14:59:57.898-08:002013-11-21T14:59:57.898-08:00That looks like a straw man argument to me. The is...That looks like a straw man argument to me. The issue for those of us who don't want engagement is the usual one which never changes. Those who do will argue for what they want. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-30437807266043934972013-11-21T09:50:43.711-08:002013-11-21T09:50:43.711-08:00"Please don't judge us all by your own st..."Please don't judge us all by your own standards!"<br /><br />But the standards of those complaining are quite clear; they're dishonest. Nobody has been claiming to represent all home educators, but a group of people who seem to resent anyone's involvement with the APPG are claiming that those involved are making such claims about their mandate.<br /><br />This looks a schoolgirl schoolyard spat.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com