tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post438069468426171200..comments2024-03-20T00:30:11.702-07:00Comments on Home Education Heretic: Formal teaching and purposive conversationSimon Webbhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10865289865412656573noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-31556439920623450962012-12-05T11:16:45.774-08:002012-12-05T11:16:45.774-08:00What's up to every one, as I am really eager o...What's up to every one, as I am really eager of reading this website's post to be updated on a regular basis.<br />It includes fastidious information.<br /><i>Also visit my webpage</i> <b><a href="http://www.teenpornsexpussy.com/horny-milf-plays-on-camera/" rel="nofollow">www.teenpornsexpussy.com</a></b>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-4445440918126101262012-12-05T10:15:47.596-08:002012-12-05T10:15:47.596-08:00Hi there! Would you mind if I share your blog with...Hi there! Would you mind if I share your blog with <br />my myspace group? There's a lot of folks that I think would really appreciate your content. Please let me know. Thank you<br /><i>Here is my website</i> ; <b><a href="http://www.teenpornpost.com/wild-fuck-in-hall/" rel="nofollow">www.teenpornpost.com</a></b>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-83993440016857632912011-02-19T08:05:41.451-08:002011-02-19T08:05:41.451-08:00And AE can include formal teaching too, if the chi...And AE can include formal teaching too, if the child requests it (as ours have at various point in time).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-52372492033550595672011-02-19T08:00:55.691-08:002011-02-19T08:00:55.691-08:00You've just described autonomous education, Si...You've just described autonomous education, Simon. Unless you would have ridden roughshod over an obvious desire on the part of your child not to find out why leaves are green? That would not be AE.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-54376418051734597862011-02-19T06:04:26.352-08:002011-02-19T06:04:26.352-08:00Suzyg wrote,
"'A key difference between S...Suzyg wrote,<br />"'A key difference between Simon's pedagogical approach and that of parents who educate 'autonomously' is that in his case he decides that the child *ought* to learn about photosynthesis and *he* asks *her* why she thinks leaves are green'"<br /><br />Not really, at least not in our experience. The key difference for us depends on the child's reaction to the question. If they seem genuinely interested the discussion continues. If not, it ends. The decision to continue or not is the child's, the beginning of the conversation would look the same. Asking questions or suggesting things that may interest my children, along with trips out, having lots of different books in the house, trips to the library, etc, etc, are just different ways to enable a child to find and develop interests of their own choosing. They are not going to discover many interests in a bare room on their own! I would probably ask if they want to know why leaves are green rather than 'why are leaves green?', but I'd imagine it could work both ways.<br /><br />"I used to hate 'why do you think...?' questions when I was a kid - you could be sure that the adult in question was going to use it a) as an opportunity to show that your idea of what was going on couldn't cut the mustard, and b) as an excuse to tell you a lot of stuff you probably didn't want to know."<br /><br />My kids don't seem to mind. Maybe because they know I'll shut up if they want me to?<br /><br />Simon wrote,<br />"Offering the chance to investigate gaseous exchange though, seems to be placed in a different category. I wonder why this should be? "<br /><br />My kids used to love it when I suggested an experiment! They do their own now.AnonySuenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-47271470422676371942011-02-19T03:49:02.008-08:002011-02-19T03:49:02.008-08:00'Yet I suspect that even the most autonomous p...'Yet I suspect that even the most autonomous parent would not hesitate to ask her child if she wished to do some painting. Offering the chance to investigate gaseous exchange though, seems to be placed in a different category. I wonder why this should be?'<br /><br />Our learning is almost entirely 'autonomous' in the sense that I've had to start from my son's areas of interest in order to get him to learn anything. I offer a varied menu of activities during the course of the day, but they are frequently refused. The only 'hook-and-bait' that works is if I start the activity myself, and then he will often join in.<br /><br /> In my son's case, given a choice of painting or investigating gaseous exchange, would go for the gaseous exchange any day. As it happens, he's familiar with photosynthesis, but only because it features in the development of the earth's atmosphere. See what I mean about extending whatever he's focussed on? <br /><br />It's all too easy to dismiss autonomous education as a soft option because you hear reports about 7 year-olds making cookies, painting and going to the park. You can learn a great deal from such activities if you have a parent who responds promptly to your questions and can rustle up the resources you need to explore them further. The key is having a learning parent, rather than one who already knows what you *ought* to know.suzygnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-6549104236016938812011-02-19T03:35:26.562-08:002011-02-19T03:35:26.562-08:00Ah, now we're getting on to how children diffe...Ah, now we're getting on to how children differ. If my son and I were building a den in the forest, it is quite possible that he would be speculating about atmospheric pressure on Mars, or gold refining by the ancient Egyptians even if we weren't working on 'Martian studies'or "Ancient Egyptian studies', but on early building techniques. <br /><br />I've become very accustomed to what I would call opportunistic learning, where my job is to extend whatever he is focussed on.suzygnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-43517371720525193712011-02-19T03:29:08.767-08:002011-02-19T03:29:08.767-08:00'A key difference between Simon's pedagogi...'A key difference between Simon's pedagogical approach and that of parents who educate 'autonomously' is that in his case he decides that the child *ought* to learn about photosynthesis and *he* asks *her* why she thinks leaves are green'<br /><br />Yet I suspect that even the most autonomous parent would not hesitate to ask her child if she wished to do some painting. Offering the chance to investigate gaseous exchange though, seems to be placed in a different category. I wonder why this should be?Simon Webbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10865289865412656573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-54067077467339219002011-02-19T03:25:15.205-08:002011-02-19T03:25:15.205-08:00'If I asked my son leading questions like this...'If I asked my son leading questions like this he would say "I have absolutely no idea and I'm not interested. Now, let's carry on with our discussion about atmospheric pressure on Mars". '<br /><br />Except if we were working on Martian studies I wouldn't ask the question in the first place. If you're walking in the forest and the child's interest is engaged, then it becomes an appropriate question. I've already used the hook-and-bait concept above, that's how we do things to offer possible subjects of interest and follow up on the ones that are grasped.Dave Hnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-26907625831534517342011-02-19T03:12:28.545-08:002011-02-19T03:12:28.545-08:00'suzyg said...
A key difference between Simon...'suzyg said... <br />A key difference between Simon's pedagogical approach and that of parents who educate 'autonomously' is that in his case he decides that the child *ought* to learn about photosynthesis and *he* asks *her* why she thinks leaves are green.'<br /><br />Yes, I think that this just about sums up the case.Simon Webbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10865289865412656573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-12034134850833117332011-02-19T03:01:32.228-08:002011-02-19T03:01:32.228-08:00A key difference between Simon's pedagogical a...A key difference between Simon's pedagogical approach and that of parents who educate 'autonomously' is that in his case he decides that the child *ought* to learn about photosynthesis and *he* asks *her* why she thinks leaves are green. I used to hate this when I was at school. An autonomously educating parent would wait for the child to ask the question.<br /><br />I used to hate 'why do you think...?' questions when I was a kid - you could be sure that the adult in question was going to use it a) as an opportunity to show that your idea of what was going on couldn't cut the mustard, and b) as an excuse to tell you a lot of stuff you probably didn't want to know.<br /><br />If I asked my son leading questions like this he would say "I have absolutely no idea and I'm not interested. Now, let's carry on with our discussion about atmospheric pressure on Mars".suzygnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-57657425904464095102011-02-19T02:52:52.630-08:002011-02-19T02:52:52.630-08:00'For all that you dismiss autonomous education...'For all that you dismiss autonomous education, it sounds like you and your daughter did a fair bit of it yourself?'<br /><br />Not really. I had a plan; various topics which I wished to cover in a certain period. I used the most effective method to achieve this end. My understanding is that in autonomus education, it is the child herself who decides what she is interested in and wishes to study.Simon Webbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10865289865412656573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-53039293551823025522011-02-19T02:46:31.660-08:002011-02-19T02:46:31.660-08:00"This was all ten or fifteen years ago; my vi..."This was all ten or fifteen years ago; my views on the subject have not changed since then! "<br /><br />In that case you've been educating autonomously all along. Welcome to the club.Dave Hnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-84535296052556080342011-02-19T02:43:36.398-08:002011-02-19T02:43:36.398-08:00For all that you dismiss autonomous education, it ...For all that you dismiss autonomous education, it sounds like you and your daughter did a fair bit of it yourself?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-19066392534077563372011-02-19T02:25:52.533-08:002011-02-19T02:25:52.533-08:00'I guess that may be because most children hav...'I guess that may be because most children have education in groups to large to get much conversation with the teacher.'<br /><br />Another powerful reason to shun nurseries. Language development in small children is promoted by one-to-one conversations with adults which are best provided at home. Using conversation as a teaching method is a natural extension of this.Simon Webbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10865289865412656573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-17551781807793439392011-02-19T02:15:00.053-08:002011-02-19T02:15:00.053-08:00Dead right Simon! the thing is by doing all that t...Dead right Simon! the thing is by doing all that the other stuff comes naturally as soon as it's needed and does not need to be pushed. But then we all waste some time providing safety nets we don't need. <br /><br />We started HE determined to do all the natural learning, and do formal stuff to back it up in case it didn't work, in fact we'd done a few weeks of school thinking we could "unschool" in evenings and weekends so that would've be the best of both worlds. School however turned out to be a damaging waste of time when contrasted with a family that was strengthening a faith in the natural learning power of the child's own development.<br /><br />There is some recent research done at York showing that talking and conversation have a better effect on literacy than direct work on reading, interesting huh!<br />http://readingformeaning.co.uk/<br /><br />Schools that Learn is a good book on the power of conversation and dialogue in learning. Some tips in there for a HE family. <br /><br />There is a stack of work on the power of conversation in adult learning but this is rarely focused on wrt child learning. I guess that may be because most children have education in groups to large to get much conversation with the teacher.<br /><br />Elizabeth <br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Another lovely book is Comprehension though Conversation: The power of purposeful conversation in the reading workshop. Written by an American teacher who knew the truth before it was backed up by the evidence of the York study.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-1035840327491599492011-02-19T02:05:09.937-08:002011-02-19T02:05:09.937-08:00'Be careful Simon, you're getting dangerou...'Be careful Simon, you're getting dangerously close to what a lot of us call autonomous education.'<br /><br />This was all ten or fifteen years ago; my views on the subject have not changed since then!Simon Webbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10865289865412656573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-81688936410533840982011-02-19T01:15:55.101-08:002011-02-19T01:15:55.101-08:00Be careful Simon, you're getting dangerously c...Be careful Simon, you're getting dangerously close to what a lot of us call autonomous education. The walk in the woods is the innocent bait, the question about leaf colour is the hook and if swallowed, the rest follows on naturally with the full support of the child. If running around through the trees and playing is more important then it gets left for another day.Dave Hnoreply@blogger.com