tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post4488433505305175783..comments2024-03-20T00:30:11.702-07:00Comments on Home Education Heretic: The Fraser Institute and home educationSimon Webbhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10865289865412656573noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-44626552068578777552009-10-08T10:43:56.708-07:002009-10-08T10:43:56.708-07:00"Interesting article Anony Mouse, but not at ..."Interesting article Anony Mouse, but not at all surprising. The target group and of course the only home educated children looked at were;<br /><br />"The target and sample populations for this study were the same, all college-bound homeschool students from the 50 U.S. states and the District of Columbia who took the college-admission SAT test during one year.""<br /><br />Yes, agreed. And not a problem, because the whole point of this research was to compare the results of different degrees of state regulation of HE on the SATS results of *college-bound homeschool students*. And it proves very effectively that there is *no statistically significant difference*, and more, that what small difference there is shows that less regulation correlates to higher SATs results.<br /><br />You seem to think that this is not surprising. Odd, given your opinion of the Badman report.<br /><br />You also dismiss this research as uninteresting because it is not about something completely different. <br /><br />"Without knowing what proportion of home educated children in each state go on to study at college, this tells us nothing at all about the efficacy of home education..." <br /><br />It's not about the efficacy of home education.<br /><br />"...let alone whether increasing regulation makes for a better outcome."<br /><br />How does it not do that?Anony Mousenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-24534874412017864822009-10-06T23:54:31.177-07:002009-10-06T23:54:31.177-07:00I think not, GoodWife. It is true that Paula Rothe...I think not, GoodWife. It is true that Paula Rothermel sent out many questionnaires and analysed several hundred responses, but the actual research, the PIPS baselines assessments, and the literacy tests were restricted to a group of thirty five. Since these were the only properly administered tests, these are the data to which I refer. In the case of the literacy tests, the situation was even more limited. Although she sent out a number for parents to carry out themselves, in fact only five tests were conducted by her in person. That is what you call a very small sample indeed!Simon Webbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10865289865412656573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-63158979178238958092009-10-06T15:01:23.809-07:002009-10-06T15:01:23.809-07:00I think you should go back and look at Paula's...I think you should go back and look at Paula's research again. Some of it involves over 1000 children Simon.Alison Sauerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17750590554400582933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-14687310692570649522009-10-06T04:58:44.597-07:002009-10-06T04:58:44.597-07:00More research that appears to support this theory....More research that appears to support this theory. Don't know of any home education research anywhere that isn't self selected though. Even research in schools is usually selective as it's often based on state schools only, for instance.<br /><br />http://www.hslda.org/docs/nche/000010/200410250.asp<br /><br />"The research [1990, 2,163 families] revealed that there was no positive correlation between state regulation of homeschools and the home-schooled students' performance. The study compared homeschoolers in three groups of states representing various levels of regulation."<br /><br />"The last significant statistic from the Strengths of Their Own study [1997, 5,402 children from 1,657 families] regards the affect of government regulation on homeschooling. Dr. Brian Ray compared the impact of government regulation on the academic performance of homeschool students and he found no positive correlation. In other words, whether a state had a high degree of regulation (i.e., curriculum approval, teacher qualifications, testing, home visits) or a state had no regulation of homeschoolers, the homeschooled students in both categories of states performed the same. The students all scored on the average in the 86th percentile regardless of state regulation."<br /><br />http://www.hslda.org/docs/study/ray2009/2009_Ray_StudyFINAL.pdf<br /><br />"[2009, 11, 739 children] Critics also insist that the government should regulate homeschooling in order to ensure the quality of education that students receive. However, in this study, the degree to which homeschooling was regulated by state governments had no bearing on student test scores. "Sharonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-87336739499904751382009-10-06T03:44:01.046-07:002009-10-06T03:44:01.046-07:00Interesting article Anony Mouse, but not at all su...Interesting article Anony Mouse, but not at all surprising. The target group and of course the only home educated children looked at were;<br /><br /> "The target and sample populations for this study were the same, all college-bound homeschool students from the 50 U.S. states and the District of Columbia who took the college-admission SAT test during one year." <br /><br />This makes it a self-selected group. Without knowing what proportion of home educated children in each state go on to study at college, this tells us nothing at all about the efficacy of home education, let alone whether increasing regulation makes for a better outcome. What it tells us is that college students tend to be well educated in their earlier years and that home educated teenagers applying fo college are at least as well educated as those who attended school. As I said, interesting, but not at all surprising.<br /><br />It would be more interesting to see what percentage of teenagers who went to school, then went on to college. Then comparing this against the percentage of home educated teenagers who also went to college. Suppose, just for the sake of argument that 20% of schooled teenagers went to college , but only 5% of home educated teenagers. This would not be a ringing endorsement of the practice. Suppose also that the percentage of home educated children applying to college varied from ttate to state? Would that tell us anything about the value of regulating home education? More research needed!Simon Webbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10865289865412656573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-31096218130378071312009-10-06T02:46:55.601-07:002009-10-06T02:46:55.601-07:00Thanks for that link Anony Mouse, very interesting...Thanks for that link Anony Mouse, very interesting article.Sharonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-77586710630258873642009-10-05T09:14:33.558-07:002009-10-05T09:14:33.558-07:00*In all cases, the states with the highest degree ...*In all cases, the states with the highest degree of state regulation had the lowest average SAT scores.*Anony Mousenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-86929510391305645832009-10-05T09:12:50.656-07:002009-10-05T09:12:50.656-07:00Very interesting study here on NHERI website:
htt...Very interesting study here on NHERI website:<br /><br />http://www.academicleadership.org/emprical_research/State_Regulation_of_Homeschooling_and_Homeschoolers_SAT_Scores.shtml<br /><br /> Need for the Study<br /><br />The debate over what the state’s role should be in regulating or controlling private education in a free society will likely continue for a long time. A wide variety of stakeholders in the education of children and youth in the United States will continue promoting their points of view. Those who make worldview-based theoretical arguments will continue to do so and will hopefully make clear that they are doing so. Those who want to include findings from empirical research in their arguments for or against (more or less) regulation of home-based education need evidence over which to deliberate. This study was planned to provide some such evidence for them.<br /><br />Purpose<br /><br />The purpose of this study was to determine whether there is a relationship between the college-admissions (or college-aptitude) SAT scores of students who were homeschooled and the degree of state regulation of homeschooling. Since (a) research to date shows the home educated to outperform, on average, public-school students in terms of academic achievement and to perform as well as institutional-school students in terms of college-admissions tests, (b) most people do not consider it an easy task to homeschool one’s children and those parents who so choose typically expend significant time, energy, and resources to educate their children, (c) there is no evidence that homeschool families significantly alter their learning attitudes and efforts based on their states’ homeschool laws, and (d) there is no evidence that homeschool parents and youth change their interest in postsecondary education based on their states’ homeschool laws, then it is hypothesized that there will be found no relationship between the degree of state regulation of homeschooling and students’ performance on a college aptitude test.<br /><br />The “degree of state regulation of homeschooling” was defined according to three categories, as follow:<br /><br />Low regulation – defined as no state requirement on the part of the homeschool parents to initiate any contact with the state.<br /><br />Moderate regulation – defined as the state requiring homeschool parents to send to the state notification of homeschooling or achievement test scores and/or evaluation of the student’s learning by a professional.<br /><br />High regulation – defined as the state requiring homeschool parents to send to the state notification of homeschooling or achievement test scores and/or evaluation by a professional and, in addition, having other requirements (e.g., curriculum approval by the state, teacher qualifications of parents, or home visits by state officials).<br /><br />Findings<br /><br />The SAT scores of homeschool students from low-, moderate-, and high-regulation states were first compared for states whose degree of regulation had not changed for the 10 years preceding and including the year of SAT testing. Tables 1, 2, and 3 present the descriptive information and ANOVA source tables for these analyses. There were no significant differences between students’ SAT scores in the three groups (of state regulation of homeschooling) for any of the three test scores (verbal, F(2, 40) = 0.58, p = .57; math, F(2,40) = 1.527, p = .23; total, F(2,40) = 1.070, p = .35). In all cases, the states with the highest degree of state regulation had the lowest average SAT scores. As previously explained, the unit of analysis was the state.Anony Mousenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-92204245931891789722009-10-05T04:25:30.281-07:002009-10-05T04:25:30.281-07:00Julie said,
and if the causes of home education ar...Julie said,<br /><i>and if the causes of home education are so different, it is likely that home ed is carried out in different ways and with differing outcomes to the UK situation.</i><br /><br />I agree that you cannot just transfer the results without thought, much the same applies to any research. However, it's very rare that a piece of research needs to be discounted completely, the limitations just have to be born in mind when considering the results. <br /><br />Take unschooling and autonomous education. From descriptions on the web they sound very much the same approach. They stem from the same original writers and the descriptions of daily life sound much the same. I can't say identical because the nature of the styles means that no day can be identical! The HLSDA study published this year covered 11+ thousand children, some of whom will have been unschooled. This is what they say about the effect the style of education had on academic results: <br /><br />"The study considered the many approaches that homeschoolers take to education—and found hardly any difference, less than .5% of variance, in achievement based on the following variables:<br />• Degree of structure (ranging from very unstructured approaches such as delight-directed learning or eclectic teaching approaches to very structured, preplanned, and prescribed approaches),<br />• Amount of time spent per day in parent-directed learning activities, and<br />• Enrollment in a full-service curriculum (one that furnishes a year’s worth of textbooks, lesson plans, evaluations, counseling, and record-keeping in all core subjects)."<br /><br />http://www.hslda.org/docs/study/ray2009/2009_Ray_StudyFINAL.pdfSharonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-55953146335739812202009-10-05T04:13:23.303-07:002009-10-05T04:13:23.303-07:00What research did you base you decision to home ed...What research did you base you decision to home educate on? Or did you just do it because it suited your family? Would you have home educated if research in the UK had shown that it had slightly poorer outcomes than school? <br /><br />Personally, we chose home education because it suited our children and allowed us to attempt non-coercion (obviously a lifestyle choice and not just a choice about education). I didn't really pay much attention to the 'success rate' studies because I largely disagree with their definitions of success. For us, success is that my children are happy and given the time and space to find and explore their interests fully, gain a good idea of how they want to spend, and solid grounding for, their adult lives and also be flexible enough and have the skills necessary to change course if necessary. Autonomous education seemed the most likely approach to allow them to do this (and the only non-coercive option, of course).Sharonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-71519860010048865292009-10-05T00:45:04.614-07:002009-10-05T00:45:04.614-07:00Of course you are absolutely right Julie.The Natio...Of course you are absolutely right Julie.The National Centre for Education Statistics in America carried out a huge survey a few years ago, looking at the motivation for home education. Almost 50% of parents gave as their main reason; "Can give child a better education at home". Compare this with Paula Rothermel's paper, The Third Way in Education, published in 2000. The main reasons that parents in Britain gave for home education were; "Having a close family relationship and being together" and also "Having the freedom and flexibility to do what we want, when we want". Nothing wrong with that of course, but it is bound to make a difference to the educational outcome.Simon Webbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10865289865412656573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-78811721901650848832009-10-05T00:40:22.926-07:002009-10-05T00:40:22.926-07:00The problem anyway is that most research that is a...The problem anyway is that most research that is available is based on US home schooling, where the numbers involved and the time period is much greater...but I am not sure how that data is transferable to the UK situation. For example on a US site I sometimes read, one parent when asked to explain why she home educated stated that it was because it gave her child a leadership education that wasn't available in schools; now I am sure that wouldn't come up as a motive here - and if the causes of home education are so different, it is likely that home ed is carried out in different ways and with differing outcomes to the UK situation.Julienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-47946726965687368562009-10-05T00:12:50.677-07:002009-10-05T00:12:50.677-07:00Quite, but that report doesn't claim to be res...Quite, but that report doesn't claim to be research. Just a summary.<br /><br />And I agree with you about Rothermel's study.<br /><br />But try NHERI's stuff.<br /><br />Mrs AnonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com