tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post4865011728486169888..comments2024-03-20T00:30:11.702-07:00Comments on Home Education Heretic: On LibertySimon Webbhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10865289865412656573noreply@blogger.comBlogger78125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-51368177313521583342010-09-02T07:49:55.568-07:002010-09-02T07:49:55.568-07:00"As far as the post from August 8th is concer..."As far as the post from August 8th is concerned, I hae re-read it and can see nothing at all objectionable about it, nor can I imagine why I would have deleted it."<br /><br />It was comments from you and others under the article that may have led to you choosing to delete it. Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately) Google cache recorded your article before the comments were posted so they have been lost.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-51959007464927140512010-09-02T02:34:20.971-07:002010-09-02T02:34:20.971-07:00Why would you think it's OK? What would be the...Why would you think it's OK? What would be the advantage of having a disenfranchised underclass? Isn't that the sort of situation that results in riots and civil disturbance?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-1305729791265395252010-09-01T22:47:20.950-07:002010-09-01T22:47:20.950-07:00' Great way to create an underclass, only abou...' Great way to create an underclass, only about half of the UK population would be able to vote!'<br /><br />And your problem with this is?Simon Webbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10865289865412656573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-32618854971664152192010-09-01T15:28:31.195-07:002010-09-01T15:28:31.195-07:00"'The instrument for enforcing the law co..."<i>'The instrument for enforcing the law could be no other than public examinations, extending to all children and starting at an early age. An age might be fixed at which every child must be examined, to ascertain if he (or she) is able to read. If a child proves unable, the father might be subjected to a moderate fine and the child put to school'</i>"<br /><br />Mills also advocated the principle that people should only be able vote in General Elections if they had passed these examinations. Great way to create an underclass, only about half of the UK population would be able to vote!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-51669588253646072692010-09-01T08:12:23.172-07:002010-09-01T08:12:23.172-07:00because your 'forrin',
or even, because y...because your 'forrin',<br /><br />or even, because you're 'forrin',Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-5558510336473017282010-09-01T08:11:23.753-07:002010-09-01T08:11:23.753-07:00"I wasn't accusing you of anything worse ..."I wasn't accusing you of anything worse than helping to perpetuate myths."<br /><br />But it isn't a myth. You argued with MPs (in writing) for monitoring/home inspections.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-15201347204136711212010-09-01T08:09:05.184-07:002010-09-01T08:09:05.184-07:00"Will that do?"
Yes, that will do fine...."Will that do?"<br /><br />Yes, that will do fine. Do you argue against their views, or just let them get on with promoting them? <br /><br />If you argue against their views, is it because you believe you can do it better than them because your 'forrin', the one-upmanship issue you mention above, or because you just want to be left alone to home educate as you know/think is best for your HE mini Italian national?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-65182029980485246702010-09-01T08:04:44.816-07:002010-09-01T08:04:44.816-07:00'so I am sorry that you think I am myth-creati...'so I am sorry that you think I am myth-creating or downright lying.'<br /><br />Don't be so touchy, Mrs Anon! I wasn't accusing you of anything worse than helping to perpetuate myths. I don't generally mind, but I have noticed lately that more and more extravagant stories seem to be going the rounds. This is a popular one; that I advocated testing children when I gave evidence for the select committee. if I seemed a little sharp, I apologise. it is just that I want to put this particular rumour to death now.Simon Webbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10865289865412656573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-65004115072037712222010-09-01T07:49:57.397-07:002010-09-01T07:49:57.397-07:00""Do you know any autonomous educators w...""Do you know any autonomous educators who are attempting to end parent-led education in the UK by writing to MPs, consultations, newspapers and probably in his book?""<br /><br />No, I think there is rather a lack of opportunity for that kind of mirror image.<br /><br />How about an individual in my HE community that believes regs that would squeeze other HEing parents out need to be introduced, because they don’t think “forrins” should be allowed to HE mini Italian nationals and they would certainly use their political affiliations to promote the introduction of said regs. <br /><br />Will that do ?TEFL Ninjahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13660756490115614438noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-77462169175998077332010-09-01T07:44:03.262-07:002010-09-01T07:44:03.262-07:00"I apparently misremembered the gist of what ..."I apparently misremembered the gist of what you said (amazingly, I don't have a copy of the transcript at my fingertips) so I am sorry that you think I am myth-creating or downright lying."<br /><br />Mrs Anon, maybe you confused his written evidence with his oral evidence to the same committee? He does argue for monitoring in his written evidence. An easy mistake to make but is it a significant mistake? Either way he argued for monitoring, whether it was in person or in writing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-65287706495529677422010-09-01T07:42:50.311-07:002010-09-01T07:42:50.311-07:00Just seen this quote, from you, re your select com...Just seen this quote, from you, re your select committee evidence, in the comments section of your next blog post.<br /><br />'I agree fully with the Recommendations of the Badman Review, particularly with regard to LEAs having new powers to monitor and inspect families who do not send their children to school. Without such regular inspections it seems very likely to me, based upon my own experience, that many children would not receive a suitable education at home.'<br /><br />So, you DID argue for the inspection/monitoring proposals in the Badman Report.<br /><br />And you had me thinking I was having a senior moment. Tsk Tsk<br /><br />Mrs AnonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-91910888113325688322010-09-01T07:34:27.300-07:002010-09-01T07:34:27.300-07:00'Mrs Anon claims that I argued in favour of te...'Mrs Anon claims that I argued in favour of testing and monitoring when I gave evidence to the select committee. Let's look at the transcript. I said that I could see no possible objection to a registration scheme.'<br /><br />Okay...Thank you for correcting my mistake.<br /><br />'Does this really sound like somebody arguing with politicians for the monitoring and testing of HE children? As I say, I am getting a little tired of the myths which seem to attach themselves to me, but when the myths turn into downright lies, iIfeel that I must speak out!'<br /><br />When a person lies, do they need to actually know they are not telling the exact truth? I saw the hearings on tv and thought I'd remembered that you had argued in favour of the Badman proposals on registration and monitoring.<br /><br />I apparently misremembered the gist of what you said (amazingly, I don't have a copy of the transcript at my fingertips) so I am sorry that you think I am myth-creating or downright lying.<br /><br />Mrs AnonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-89100582339735003462010-09-01T06:05:52.833-07:002010-09-01T06:05:52.833-07:00"By which, presumably, you mean that I am a h..."By which, presumably, you mean that I am a home educating parent with strong views on home education and who is not shy of expressing those views?"<br /><br />That may well be all you are (though you do make money from some of your efforts so not really 'just' a HE parent with strong views), I'm just explaining why some people might make an effort to comment here when they wouldn't bother on another blog where someone just says how good parent-led education is. The difference is that you have gone out of your way to express your views <b>against</b> autonomous education. You campaign for measures that will end AE. I don't know of anyone other home educating parent who does this. I know many who promote their own methods, but none who actively campaign to end the methods used by others. If you cannot see the difference, well...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-9312159431923474392010-09-01T05:46:05.075-07:002010-09-01T05:46:05.075-07:00'As has been mentioned, it's his active ca...'As has been mentioned, it's his active campaigning to end AE that makes Simon different to others who think a parent-led approach is best.'<br /><br />By which, presumably, you mean that I am a home educating parent with strong views on home education and who is not shy of expressing those views? How very different from some parents who favour different methods! Do get a grip Anonymous. There are plenty of home educating parents like me all over the Internet. We shoot our mouths off about all sorts of things. I doubt if anybody other than other home educating parents ever take a blind bit of notice. Or are you saying that it would be better if only those parents who were opposed to the recommendations made in the Badman report who should be allowed to shoot their mouths off like this?Simon Webbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10865289865412656573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-33754329471803458202010-09-01T05:43:13.606-07:002010-09-01T05:43:13.606-07:00"Yes, the written submission of one home educ..."Yes, the written submission of one home educating parent giving a personal opinion. This hardly counts as 'arguing with politicians'."<br /><br />Of course it is.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-58188375834836009532010-09-01T05:42:34.445-07:002010-09-01T05:42:34.445-07:00"So I don't see the point in making the p..."So I don't see the point in making the point all about Simon all of the time, when he is displaying a symptom that many other sufferers are displaying too."<br /><br />Do you know any autonomous educators who are attempting to end parent-led education in the UK by writing to MPs, consultations, newspapers and probably in his book?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-83284636156579809172010-09-01T05:40:56.795-07:002010-09-01T05:40:56.795-07:00"So I don't see the point in making the p..."So I don't see the point in making the point all about Simon all of the time, when he is displaying a symptom that many other sufferers are displaying too."<br /><br />As has been mentioned, it's his active campaigning to end AE that makes Simon different to others who think a parent-led approach is best.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-81583313419395561872010-09-01T05:29:43.067-07:002010-09-01T05:29:43.067-07:00'What about your written submission?'
Yes...'What about your written submission?'<br /><br />Yes, the written submission of one home educating parent giving a personal opinion. This hardly counts as 'arguing with politicians'.Simon Webbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10865289865412656573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-73604457540024658172010-09-01T05:25:51.167-07:002010-09-01T05:25:51.167-07:00"Mrs Anon claims that I argued in favour of t..."Mrs Anon claims that I argued in favour of testing and monitoring when I gave evidence to the select committee. Let's look at the transcript."<br /><br />What about your written submission?<br /><br />You say:<br /><br /><i>As a home educating parent myself, I have long had doubts about the standard of education being provided by many parents who have withdrawn their children from school. I was accordingly pleased when the DCSF decided to commission Graham Badman to conduct a review of elective home education...<br /><br /><br />My worries about home education centre largely around the practice of autonomous education, in which children decide for themselves what they should learn. This is the most popular educational technique adopted by those who withdraw their children from school. I believe this to be an extremely inefficient method of education...<br /><br /><br />As a home educator I agree fully with the Recommendations of the Badman Review, particularly with regard to LEAs having new powers to monitor and inspect families who do not send their children to school. Without such regular inspections it seems very likely to me, based upon my own experience, that many children would not receive a suitable education at home</i>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-23526890134782813822010-09-01T05:18:53.330-07:002010-09-01T05:18:53.330-07:00"That's what I meant."
I get that, ..."That's what I meant."<br /><br />I get that, but given the sensitivities and war wounds that are out there, a bald statement containing "my way better than your way" does not communicate the whole picture and can lead to the wrong (cos it is not complete) message being heard.<br /><br />Then people get snippy, so the people on the receiving end of what they see as unprovoked snippy get snarky, the snark escalates the original snippy into outright stroppy, stroppy begets sneers...and so on and so forth till there are loggerheads abound with everybody, on every side yelling, "well I'm entitled to be rude and dismissive of that lot, cos THEY started it". They aren't lying, most people are highly sensitive to careless words thwacking their feelings, but lean towards being utterly oblivious when they do the same to others, so the “first stone thrown" was probably a bit of grit flying off a tyre taking a bend a bit fast, rather than slowing down and painting a more complete picture of what they meant. Unfortunately it dinged off the windshield of somebody else...and so it starts.<br /><br />All of us are perfectly capable of walking somebody through the pitfalls one can hurtle through in our own educational choices. Most of us are capable of doing the same when it comes to educational options that we didn't choose. Very few have achieved a fantastic level of competency in terms of being linguistically sensitive enough to avoid raising the hackles of another when doing either. Self included.<br /><br />Your objections to Simon's views on your style of HE are valid. You are right. He chooses loaded terms and makes blanket statements that do not take into account the variables and the gaps in his knowledge about AHE. But he is not alone. There is no lack of provocative statements, loaded language, sweeping statements about negative outcomes\processes and assumptions to fill gaps where intimate knowledge does not exist …from any point of the spectrum in reference to another point on the spectrum.<br /><br />So I don't see the point in making the point all about Simon all of the time, when he is displaying a symptom that many other sufferers are displaying too. I think it is more useful, more relevant and more interesting to look at the primary "disease" that causes the symptom in so many of us and think about ways to get a cure in the short term and a measure of prevention in the longer term.<br /><br />I recognize that I might be alone in this “interest group”, that might be cos my "HE community" is very small so I don't have the option of retreating to "my tribe" and only playing in the big pool when I’m feeling punchy. My tribe is microbe sized . It's a bit lonely in this Tee Pee. I want to play in the mid pool and the big pool when I'm looking for chats and giggles as well as when I fancy a debate, but the crabs keep nibbling my toes and making me all irritable when I see who I am and what I do causally maligned and misrepresented by other peoples’ self-representation . Likewise (see last night for examples) I manage to be a crab myself without ever noticing that I'm scuttling sideways waving my nippers about until somebody gets snippy in response and I get all "Cheeky git ! SNARKTASTIC mode, engage and FIRE !!!!!"<br /><br />Ahh blogger is going to eat this comment for length issues. No matter how hard I try it’s clear that the succinct fairy decided not to sprinkle me with "short and sweet" dust.TEFL Ninjahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13660756490115614438noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-42994338126748535552010-09-01T04:58:11.317-07:002010-09-01T04:58:11.317-07:00I realise that I am a figure of almost mythologica...I realise that I am a figure of almost mythological hatred among certain home educators, but feel that I do need to squash some of the more ludicrous myths which people are spreading. Presumably because the select committee was almost a year ago, everybody feels that they can tell any lies about what I said there and it will pass unnoticed. Not so.<br /><br />Mrs Anon claims that I argued in favour of testing and monitoring when I gave evidence to the select committee. Let's look at the transcript. I said that I could see no possible objection to a registration scheme. This was hardly radical; even Fiona Nicholson was undecided about the idea of compulsory registration at that time, the Chair put her down as a 'Don't know'.<br /><br />As far as monitoring and testing were concerned, I said:<br /><br />'I am against an over-prescriptive approach. ...If I met a child of 14 who could not work out in his head the change from a £10 note, I could be reasonably sure of guessing that he was not receiving a proper education'. (I had already made it clear that I was not talking here about children with special educational needs.) I finished by saying of local authorities, 'They should not be testing children in a formal way, but it is fairly easy to guess wheter a child is recaeiving an education'.<br /><br />Does this really sound like somebody arguing with politicians for the monitoring and testing of HE children? As I say, I am getting a little tired of the myths which seem to attach themselves to me, but when the myths turn into downright lies, iIfeel that I must speak out!Simon Webbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10865289865412656573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-17552138424085868922010-09-01T04:11:51.709-07:002010-09-01T04:11:51.709-07:00"I'm not doing it this way cos I think my..."I'm not doing it this way cos I think my way is better than your way.<br /><br />I'm doing it this way cos I think my way it is the best fit for my kid\parent combo and I know I can aim for good practice because I am at ease with it and have a ton of experience to lean on when the very new and sometimes scary aspects make me jumpy."<br /><br />That's what I meant. I don't think there is 'one way' that is the best and only way children should be educated. That's my main objection to Simon and his views on home education. I know from experience that parent-led education does not work for my children. I didn't just pluck autonomous education out of a book and run with it. We tried various approaches and autonomous education evolved from our experiences.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-48813183117366404122010-09-01T03:06:08.543-07:002010-09-01T03:06:08.543-07:00"I would hope they do believe their method is..."I would hope they do believe their method is better than mine, or why are they doing it that way?"<br />__<br /><br />I'm not doing it this way cos I think my way is better than your way.<br /><br />I'm doing it this way cos I think my way it is the best fit for my kid\parent combo and I know I can aim for good practice because I am at ease with it and have a ton of experience to lean on when the very new and sometimes scary aspects make me jumpy.<br /><br />I stole the term and the main thrust of my way from my field, (think of it like somebody taking their teddy bear with them when they go on their first sleep over, security blanket R Us) and I love it to bits, but it is an overarching methodology that has massive inbuilt pitfalls in the wrong hands, when it is a bad fit its potential to lead to bad practice has few rivals. So no, it can’t be intrinsically “better than yours” given its weak spots.<br /><br />Bottom line, my way is better than your way doesn’t make sense. Philosophies, methodologies are tools.<br /><br />A plumber’s snake is the best choice for a plumber to clear pipes and a Black and Decker is the best choice for a builder who needs to hang a picture. We all just pick the one that suits the job in hand.<br /><br />If the plumber tries to hit the pipe with the snake and the pipe stays blocked it doesn’t mean the snake is a crappy tool, it means he didn’t do his homework in depth and has gaps in his knowledge that prevent him from attaining good practice.<br /><br />If the builder leaves his Black and Decker in the rain and destroys the motor it doesn’t mean that B’n’D sell shoddy goods, it means he got sloppy and forgot that no tool can compensate for a half arsed effort by the person using it.<br />It all comes back to good fit for the parent\kid combo and aiming for good practice. <br /><br />Nothing to do with my way is better than your way.TEFL Ninjahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13660756490115614438noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-31867734765467631732010-08-31T23:48:21.794-07:002010-08-31T23:48:21.794-07:00'Can't actually remember arguing with any ...'Can't actually remember arguing with any politicians. More details needed about this claim.'<br /><br />Going to the select committee (politicians) and arguing for monitoring and testing of HE children?<br /><br />Mrs AnonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-90312607421185093722010-08-31T23:16:58.102-07:002010-08-31T23:16:58.102-07:00'He writes newspaper articles against autonomo...'He writes newspaper articles against autonomous education'<br /><br />That would be two short pieces over a year ago!<br /><br />' argues with politicians for measures that will end our choices.'<br /><br />Can't actually remember arguing with any politicians. More details needed about this claim.<br /><br />' I suspect his new book aimed at Local Authorities will also push this agenda.'<br /><br />Unfounded suspicion! It is an objective survery of the situation today, except that in the final chapter, I suggest my own ideas on the subject.<br /><br />'If this were just the blog of someone who thought a parent-led, structured approach is better than autonomous education '<br /><br />You got that right anonymous, that's precisely what this is. There are a number of blogs which have the opposite point of view, that's democracy.<br /><br />'Simon Webbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10865289865412656573noreply@blogger.com