tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post4961128866218855192..comments2024-03-20T00:30:11.702-07:00Comments on Home Education Heretic: Motives for claiming that children have learned to read without being taughtSimon Webbhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10865289865412656573noreply@blogger.comBlogger50125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-13333446725882379892011-03-24T04:42:16.862-07:002011-03-24T04:42:16.862-07:00Not the same anonymous (I would also be interested...Not the same anonymous (I would also be interested in seeing their links), but these pages look like they may lead to relevant research papers:<br /><br />http://www.iverna.com/academic<br /><br />http://www.edutopia.org/brain-research-reading-instruction-literacyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-78807991958501040212011-03-24T00:46:17.945-07:002011-03-24T00:46:17.945-07:00'In fact, research suggests that kids learn to...'In fact, research suggests that kids learn to read in spite of instruction. And research also shows that some kids simply aren't neurologically ready to read according to the time table set out by schools.'<br /><br />Could you please point me to those research papers?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-61314005301427856562011-03-23T17:15:51.005-07:002011-03-23T17:15:51.005-07:00I taught myself to read when I was about 5. I had ...I taught myself to read when I was about 5. I had this giant book that was actually a combination of many books my mom had put together for me. I loved that book. And I clearly remember sitting on a chair and trying to read the stories. The way I taught myself was by running to my mom back and forth and asking "whats this letter?", "whats that letter?". The next thing she noticed me sitting with the book and reading on my own! So she never actively tried teaching me to read. <br />It def stuck with me because reading is my passion these days...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-6768140979366656142011-03-23T02:07:19.484-07:002011-03-23T02:07:19.484-07:00"And the legend continues..."
Denial ag..."And the legend continues..."<br /><br />Denial again... If you don't like something, you just keep on denying it happens. Just stick your hands over your eyes and shout la, la, la, la at the top of your voice if it helps.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-68441889742026407702011-03-22T23:07:18.708-07:002011-03-22T23:07:18.708-07:00'This happens all the time. Very few children ...'This happens all the time. Very few children are actually "taught" to read. In fact, research suggests that kids learn to read in spite of instruction. And research also shows that some kids simply aren't neurologically ready to read according to the time table set out by schools. I've met several children who didn't read until they were 11, 12, or 13 who were reading beyond their age level within a few months of starting to read.'<br /><br />And the legend continues...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-25647253021167876612011-03-22T13:56:12.662-07:002011-03-22T13:56:12.662-07:00I learned to read without direct instruction befor...I learned to read without direct instruction before I was five years old. And that was over 40 years ago. My husband did likewise, so it came as no surprise to either of us that our son read without direct instruction when he was four.<br /><br />Of course, we were all immersed in print-rich environments and had adults around who read to us, but we weren't deliberately or systematically taught.<br /><br />This happens all the time. Very few children are actually "taught" to read. In fact, research suggests that kids learn to read in spite of instruction. And research also shows that some kids simply aren't neurologically ready to read according to the time table set out by schools. I've met several children who didn't read until they were 11, 12, or 13 who were reading beyond their age level within a few months of starting to read. (This doesn't happen for all late readers as some do have a legitimate learning disorder and parents must be careful to pay attention to the signs that this might be the case for older children.)<br /><br />But what I have learned is that there really is little point in trying to argue about reading with people who believe that kids must be taught. They won't change their minds, even if they are wrong. ;)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-44952767453117684992011-03-21T14:48:34.047-07:002011-03-21T14:48:34.047-07:00"tout stories of children who learned to read..."tout stories of children who learned to read, on their own, with no instruction or parental 'coercion', once they hit age 8, or 9, or 10, or 12. This is taken to validate the choice to endorse 'late reading'."<br /><br />I have a child who chose to learn to read at a later age than the school norm. They chose to learn and had instruction. AE does not preclude teaching or structured learning, just coercion. I didn't take it as a validation of our choice to endorse 'late reading' because I don't endorse late reading. I am more than happy that some of my children learnt to read earlier than the school norm (one learnt at just under 3, for instance). I just see reading as one of many skills a child will learn before they are adults and the order they choose to learn them in doesn't seem as important to me as it appears to be to you. You appear to dislike people being different to you, but that's your problem, not mine.<br /><br />"There's a high level of denial about what often drives this level of sudden interest - namely, peer pressure and teasing from age-mates who can read."<br /><br />Can't really win can I? If I tell you that my child wasn't teased (I did ask them), you will just claim I'm in denial. <br /><br />Yes, knowing that others their age were reading did influence their choice to begin learning to read, along with a wish to keep in contact with friends across the country via email, facebook, etc There were many reasons that put 'pressure' on them to learn to read, just as there were pressures on them to learn to ride a bike. What's wrong with that? They chose to learn to read for their own reasons but were very definite about not learning before then (and not because I told then not to!). <br /><br />"I think that a similar dynamic is in place - parents want to believe that their children have validated their educational philosophy, and proven themselves to be geniuses after all those years of doubt from granny!"<br /><br />A genius for learning to read? Who would think that? Or is it the parents that are supposed to think they are geniuses for preferring to avoid coercing their children (as far as possible)? We don't avoid coercion because we think it's clever, we avoid it because we think it is harmful and wrong. Can't see why anyone would feel a genius for any of these reasons. <br /><br />You appear to be in denial that it's possible for a family to operate successfully following this approach to family life. Luckily, that's your problem, not ours. We have a very happy family and children who know their mind and have excellent problem solving skills when finding common preferences with others (ie, great social skills!). All have gone on to further or higher education and/or work in the direction of their choice, so whether you choose to belief that this is true or not is irrelevant.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-80411317947837738892011-03-21T00:50:51.760-07:002011-03-21T00:50:51.760-07:00I think this also ties in with the other end of th...I think this also ties in with the other end of the reading spectrum - late reading and the idea that "children will learn to read once they want to" - which also seems freighted with a similar level of denial in some cases.<br /> <br />US "unshoolers" (and to a lesser extent, UK AE-ers) tend to tout stories of children who learned to read, on their own, with no instruction or parental 'coercion', once they hit age 8, or 9, or 10, or 12. This is taken to validate the choice to endorse 'late reading'. There's a high level of denial about what often drives this level of sudden interest - namely, peer pressure and teasing from age-mates who can read. (I guess the myth that home educated children don't socialise is actually beneficial in some cases!)<br /><br />I think that a similar dynamic is in place - parents want to believe that their children have validated their educational philosophy, and proven themselves to be geniuses after all those years of doubt from granny! They aren't lying, but often see what they want to see - in this case non-coerced learning in the place of peer pressure.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-82656177502079719162011-03-20T18:27:19.363-07:002011-03-20T18:27:19.363-07:00"The obvious solution is to start teaching, w..."The obvious solution is to start teaching, while denying that you are doing anything of the sort. That way, you will be able to maintain your status as autonomously educating parent and also demonstrate to everybody else how bright your kid is."<br /><br />Why would autonomously educating parents have to deny they are teaching? We educate autonomously and used a phonics scheme to teach one of ours to read. Why would I claim we didn't? As long as it's the child's choice (for AE families), teaching is a great way to learn new information and skills - one of the best. None of mine ever got on with flash cards though. You have some strange ideas about AE, Simon.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-11182021632680797972011-03-20T16:10:59.706-07:002011-03-20T16:10:59.706-07:00Yep sorry but my 3 year old non verbal ds read at ...Yep sorry but my 3 year old non verbal ds read at that age. His deaf brother followed suit by the age of 9.Ruthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15558017525084735223noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-57688761134306141852011-03-20T15:16:49.469-07:002011-03-20T15:16:49.469-07:00Almost funny...Almost funny...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-34523646876356935562011-03-20T09:33:42.106-07:002011-03-20T09:33:42.106-07:00Replying to anonymous..Replying to anonymous..Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-22963741680137764032011-03-20T09:22:30.823-07:002011-03-20T09:22:30.823-07:00"Was that irony flying overhead?"
You r..."Was that irony flying overhead?"<br /><br />You really need to make it clear who you are replying to if you want people to make sense of your comments. If they make sense, that is.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-78270058648123393442011-03-20T08:58:40.563-07:002011-03-20T08:58:40.563-07:00You owe the Japanese disaster fund a tenner...You owe the Japanese disaster fund a tenner...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-44097700886253885642011-03-20T08:57:14.019-07:002011-03-20T08:57:14.019-07:00Was that irony flying overhead?Was that irony flying overhead?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-77820115160461599662011-03-20T08:16:28.345-07:002011-03-20T08:16:28.345-07:00"You can find them featured in the pages of V..."You can find them featured in the pages of VIZ."<br /><br />But would AE parent's have a copy of VIZ? Wouldn't that be politically incorrect?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-64688829500579249782011-03-20T07:29:05.892-07:002011-03-20T07:29:05.892-07:00Alan Moore has nothing to fear. It was rubbish. I&...Alan Moore has nothing to fear. It was rubbish. I'm now not sure who I'm arguing with or what about.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-47862667896412827412011-03-20T07:27:01.612-07:002011-03-20T07:27:01.612-07:00You can donate the £10 to the Japanese appeal.
I&#...You can donate the £10 to the Japanese appeal.<br />I'm sure Simon can see that it gets done.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-29390250080475622662011-03-20T07:26:03.392-07:002011-03-20T07:26:03.392-07:00NaziNaziAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-68187370616235638112011-03-20T07:25:36.016-07:002011-03-20T07:25:36.016-07:00You co-wrote a graphic novel...
Alan Moore must be...You co-wrote a graphic novel...<br />Alan Moore must be quaking in his boots.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-18226596349739120972011-03-20T07:25:32.071-07:002011-03-20T07:25:32.071-07:00Cross-posted with loads of people. Now apparently ...Cross-posted with loads of people. Now apparently I'm a book-burner! £10 for the first person to call me a Nazi.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-39361258020088935162011-03-20T07:22:47.779-07:002011-03-20T07:22:47.779-07:00TCS ...oh gawd it doesn't get any funnier than...TCS ...oh gawd it doesn't get any funnier than that.<br />RAFLMAOAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-25702238941859889642011-03-20T07:20:13.656-07:002011-03-20T07:20:13.656-07:00Yes, I've got both types too, and I did 't...Yes, I've got both types too, and I did 'teach' my son.<br /><br />I can't imagine many parents manage to read to their child whenever their child requests it, and surely in the real world it's perfectly acceptable to admit that your child's favourite book bores you. It's only in the strange world of home ed websites that admitting these things makes you a bad advert for home ed! <br /><br />And, because I now seem to have started a completely new argument, I'm not anti-comics - I once co-wrote a graphic novel! I just find reading crap ones aloud rather dull! And now I'm going to the park before I'm compelled to write an essay justifying why I'm actually not a bad parent, despite once, three years ago, refusing to read my daughter any more Ben 10.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-9955449669750035612011-03-20T07:14:50.438-07:002011-03-20T07:14:50.438-07:00This AE lobby....they remind me so much of a very ...This AE lobby....they remind me so much of a very popular comic strip, 'The Modern Parents'. As parents go they're a Politically Correct nightmare. <br /><br />You can find them featured in the pages of VIZ.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-18042243901862815532011-03-20T07:06:27.283-07:002011-03-20T07:06:27.283-07:00"'Because I said I don't enjoy readin..."'Because I said I don't enjoy reading trashy,semi-literate comic books'<br />A somewhat old fashioned and uninformed view of the 'comic' genre.."<br /><br />She didn't like reading one particular comic book her child had been given. How does this translate to the whole 'comic' genre? Have you liked every single book or reading material you have ever read in your life?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com