tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post7265458082601755981..comments2024-03-20T00:30:11.702-07:00Comments on Home Education Heretic: GCSEs and universitySimon Webbhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10865289865412656573noreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-45146032015106170442010-06-08T11:36:00.639-07:002010-06-08T11:36:00.639-07:00"The cases you mention have taken GCSEs preci..."The cases you mention have taken GCSEs precisely because they were needed in order to get on to the courses which they wanted." <br />The poster was very clear that the students I referred to have _no_ GCSE's or A levels at all.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-10383314134166834872010-06-08T10:51:47.657-07:002010-06-08T10:51:47.657-07:00But not the 'required' number, which sugge...But not the 'required' number, which suggests that universities are flexible. If they accept less than 5 GCSE plus 3 A levels they are likely to accept alternative qualifications, especially if they are at a higher level (OU for example), or relevant work experience. I think it's more usual to suggest alternatives to GCSE rather than no qualifications at all, at least for academic subjects (I know plenty of children who have gained college or university places on arts courses without formal qualifications).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-32894044062241192752010-06-07T23:38:15.832-07:002010-06-07T23:38:15.832-07:00I was asking about children who have no GCSEs. The...I was asking about children who have no GCSEs. The cases you mention have taken GCSEs precisely because they were needed in order to get on to the courses which they wanted. That was my point.Simon Webbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10865289865412656573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-1882408351040853822010-06-07T18:00:06.509-07:002010-06-07T18:00:06.509-07:00I've just had a look "over on the HE-UK l...I've just had a look "over on the HE-UK list" and there are several examples of young people who have gone to university with very few GCSE's or even A levels. One for example, with only three GCSE's, is doing a PHD in chemistry. A couple with no GCSE's or A levels at all have BAs, although in subjects that you probably wouldn't consider academic enough. Several others are doing degrees in subjects that even you couldn't find fault with, and have only about 4 GCSE's each. Why don't you ask the people who provided this information to tell you which universities their offspring went to (Oxbridge was mentioned) so that you can contact them yourself and verify the information?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-56009869298934264722010-06-07T16:06:16.659-07:002010-06-07T16:06:16.659-07:00"Alex Dowty of course spent four years at sch..."Alex Dowty of course spent four years at school, learning the basics." <br />It was a Steiner school, actually. And we know what you think of those.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-69886590083797910422010-06-07T06:27:11.826-07:002010-06-07T06:27:11.826-07:00I should add that you have to speak to the right ...I should add that you have to speak to the right people which usually means tutors and professors NOT admin people and it truly is NOT an easy option because one has to demonstrate one's readiness to learn at this level. <br /><br />Basically the young person is proving the same ability just in a different way. <br /><br />A sort of halfway house entry seems to be had using some of those one year access courses universities first developed for mature students without qualifications. In fact back in the late eighties I met a great many mature students at my university with no GCSE's. They had demonstrated their abilities by either the access course or some other persuasive evidence. It is no different for the home educated young person.<br /><br />So, if I were looking for a uni to take a EHE young person without qualifications I would probably take a good look at ones that have flexible entry for mature students.Alison Sauernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-65981925098826439162010-06-05T06:53:52.632-07:002010-06-05T06:53:52.632-07:00Nottingham Trent and St Andrews and Oxford and Cam...Nottingham Trent and St Andrews and Oxford and Cambridge off the top of my headAlison Sauernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-62282312012486569342010-06-04T05:06:23.310-07:002010-06-04T05:06:23.310-07:00tTats a first us agreeing Julie it wont last!
n...tTats a first us agreeing Julie it wont last! <br /><br />not many people are to be doctors so ok to me for them to spend a lot of time studying.it cost a lot of tax payers money to send people to uni so only those that really want it should go from what ive seen some people use it to avoid real work!<br /><br />anther good job is LA worker how do you become one? do you have to go to uni to be one? i mite apply myself for one of those LA numbers!<br /><br />I think old Simon wants every one to go to college and uni like crazy Badman did he lots his job Julie did you know?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-76371721796182005412010-06-04T04:41:03.683-07:002010-06-04T04:41:03.683-07:00Actually I agree with you on that one Peter - the ...Actually I agree with you on that one Peter - the sheer stupidity of making 50% of school leavers go to uni astounds me. But if a child wants to go to uni they should be able to, hence my above stuff about being prepared. And, yes, I think I would rather have a doctor who had the right qualifications.....Julienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-56352432499824356332010-06-04T03:51:34.537-07:002010-06-04T03:51:34.537-07:00Well that all sounds very complicated to me Julie!...Well that all sounds very complicated to me Julie!<br /><br />is going to uni really so inportant maybe geting a job is better? go into the real world and work! old crazy Badman wanted every one to go to uni.Peter wants to join police force you dont have to go to uni to do that!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-83622534365847262642010-06-04T02:32:10.661-07:002010-06-04T02:32:10.661-07:00No, I want the parents to be fully informed about ...No, I want the parents to be fully informed about whether it matters or not; it all depends on what the ability of the child is like and whether they have definate aspirations for any particular future.<br /><br />For example, one of the HE girls I currently teach maths to wants to do medicine. Doubtless her mother could have decided that she might be able to get in as a mature student having done access courses/OU courses etc in the future, but given that medicine is very competitive even with excellent results and that the training is long already (so starting late has implications, especially for a woman who may want a career break to have children,) the mother decided that doing IGCSES etc was the way ahead. So this girl (who is a year 9 child) will do maths next week and more exams including additional maths next year to prepare for the future- a future the girl herself wants but her mother has researched.<br /><br />In contrast, another friend's daughter was always interested only in "arty" things and was aiming at a college course in photography. The girl was never very academic and many GCSES seemed to be out of her reach; plus they financial implications would have made taking exams difficult for the family. The mother researched a local college which took her on the desired course based on a portfolio and a maths/English test and all seem happy with the outcome. The daughter has no aspirations to further education, so as yet there have been no limitations caused by their choices.<br /><br />What worries me is families who are misled making decsions based on poor info. I know one girl who failed to get into her chosen uni course because although her "alternative " qualifications were apparently recognised she still didn't get an offer; presumably because there were better candidates with more conventional proof of their ability. A completely different scenario is the girl who wanted to do a vocational college course; she had no GCSES so entered on the foundation course locally only to find the very same girls who had once bullied her at school were on the same level course. Had she passed some exams she could have started a level higher and missed out on her "delightful" classmates.Julienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-29977933253426522312010-06-04T02:08:20.197-07:002010-06-04T02:08:20.197-07:00old simon deleting me post Juile i must be geting ...old simon deleting me post Juile i must be geting to him lol<br /><br />you want parent to tell child it does matter if she he does not take GCSE by 16 Julie?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-12198910782340175012010-06-04T01:47:46.709-07:002010-06-04T01:47:46.709-07:00Peter - do you never actually read what I say? I s...Peter - do you never actually read what I say? I said perfectly clearly that my issue wasn't whether a child did or didn't take exams; it was with the distribution of poor information as to whether this did or didn't matter!Julienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-90110685178300302022010-06-03T14:49:58.389-07:002010-06-03T14:49:58.389-07:00Studying and taking GCSEs is not a full time job! ...Studying and taking GCSEs is not a full time job! It can easily be fitted into an active life, especially if they are spread out over a few years. They certainly did not interfere with my daughter's life too much. What is your daughter's field and how much time did it take up each day? My daughter never spent more than a couple of hours each day studying.Simon Webbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10865289865412656573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-88564697833323061842010-06-03T14:46:02.401-07:002010-06-03T14:46:02.401-07:00"Conversely, I can see no advantages in not h..."Conversely, I can see no advantages in not having any GCSEs and many disadvantages."<br /><br />I just gave you one. My daughter is two years ahead of her peers in her chosen field because she did not spend two years studying for and taking GCSEs.<br /><br />"If however she had not got them, then she would have still been free to follow a non academic course, but prevented from studying A levels. Having the GCSEs gave her more options, which can only be a good thing."<br /><br />My daughter is in the same position. If your daughter wanted to study my daughter's field she would need two years to catch up, just as my daughter would need 2 years to catch up with yours if she wanted to study A levels instead (or maybe just 1 year if 4-5 GCSEs were sufficient).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-22002401364719448632010-06-03T14:43:25.597-07:002010-06-03T14:43:25.597-07:00Quite a few universities pay lip service to 'w...Quite a few universities pay lip service to 'widening access' and specifically state that they do not necessarily require students to have A levels. In practice, this is usually aimed at foreign students who might have different qualifications. Alison tells us that some universities are prepared to accept; 'a portfolio of work (which could, for example, include an in depth professionally kept lab book - better evidence of scientific understanding than any A level)' I am very keen to know which university is being referred to here. A university which apparently prefers a well kept lab book because it is better evidence of scientific understanding than an A level in Chemistry is really worth knowing about. In short, which university is this and how many students have they accepted in the last few years without any A levels or GCSEs?Simon Webbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10865289865412656573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-4161528712638207892010-06-03T13:51:10.510-07:002010-06-03T13:51:10.510-07:00Alison, I mentioned Dundee because that was talked...Alison, I mentioned Dundee because that was talked about on the lists as an exciting possibility for home educated teenagers. You seem to be saying that you know cases of young people who have gained places at universities to study academic subjects such as sciences without having either GCSEs or A levels. Can you tell us which universities these are? I am interested in this subject and would like to speak to the universities concerned.Simon Webbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10865289865412656573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-50452396419915199642010-06-03T09:34:14.202-07:002010-06-03T09:34:14.202-07:00Alison,
Not stepping in here to defend Simon.... ...Alison,<br /><br />Not stepping in here to defend Simon.... but the trouble is that we do hear reports of people who don't have any qualifications getting in to uni, but no one ever comes up and says who/what/where! <br />All the people who I know about has alternative qualifications, not none at all; and on the other side I do know a couple of folk who did have alternative qualifications but who still had a lot of bother or didn't succeed to get on their chosen course. <br /><br />Now I am not advocating that anyone should be having to do anything ; I just want better info so choices made are informed.Julienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-39019101289581806622010-06-03T08:57:35.058-07:002010-06-03T08:57:35.058-07:00Simon, ringing an administrator in one university ...Simon, ringing an administrator in one university and as a result declaring it is impossible is very poor research. <br /><br />I DO know of other people who have got in without so-called qualifications. And I have spoken to several admissions people at Universities over the years who have all said that what is required is a demonstration of ability to self study and study at a certain level along with commitment to and interest in the subject. It's not easy to get in like this and often one has to have a rigorous interview and show a portfolio of work (which could, for example, include an in depth professionally kept lab book - better evidence of scientific understanding than any A level). Some even require sitting some kind of aptitude test. The requirement varies from university to university and from department to department. It usually requires some digging to find a person who can actually answer the question of what is *really* required too.<br /><br />A few years ago I had a very long conversation with someone from the English Department of one of the colleges at Cambridge (a lecturer with responsibility for admissions, not an administrator) who re-iterated this very thing.<br /><br />There are, however, some universities who will only accept A levels etc for certain departments.<br /><br />Even if one wishes to gain admittance to such a department/univerity it is not beyond the wit of many well rounded home educated young people to pick up an A level or 3 from college in a short space of time. One has not "ruined one's chances" because one hasn't taken a prescribed number of GCSEs and A levels at a prescribed age!Alison Sauernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-3818302543924483082010-06-03T08:14:14.503-07:002010-06-03T08:14:14.503-07:00I mentioned the age of twelve because that was the...I mentioned the age of twelve because that was the age which a previous poster talked about. I can see many advantages to having a string of GCSEs and no disadvantages. Conversely, I can see no advantages in not having any GCSEs and many disadvantages. In other words, having acquired the GCSEs by the time she was fifteen, my daughter could then have chosen to become a carpenter or other career which did not require them. If however she had not got them, then she would have still been free to follow a non academic course, but prevented from studying A levels. Having the GCSEs gave her more options, which can only be a good thing. I could not possible have coached her through those examinations against her will; the whole process was by mutual consent. It could hardly have been otherwise. Imagine trying to force a teenager to study physics against her will. It does not bear thinking about!Simon Webbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10865289865412656573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-55256965522744027352010-06-03T07:58:48.560-07:002010-06-03T07:58:48.560-07:00"I don't think that at the age of twelve,..."I don't think that at the age of twelve, my daughter was capable fully of understanding the way that her options would be restricted without GCSEs."<br /><br />Were you aware of (and make her aware of) the restrictions that spending two years on GCSEs may have placed on her future? One of my children made the choice not to study GCSEs and is now a couple of years ahead of her peers in her chosen route. Other young people who spent two years on GCSEs and are now having to play catch up with my daughter. There is nothing to stop my daughter taking GCSEs (by correspondence, for instance) at a later date if she wants to change direction in much the same way as these other young people are are as a result of their change in direction. <br /><br />And why would she need to make the choice at 12? One of mine made the choice to take GCSEs at 15 and had 6 by the time they were 17. Bit of a late starter but they are only 'behind' a year.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-50212731856549736902010-06-03T06:20:09.748-07:002010-06-03T06:20:09.748-07:00Well, all children are different, I guess. Our 13...Well, all children are different, I guess. Our 13 year old is perfectly able to understand the implications of decisions about qualifications and is in fact making decisions about them and learning from those decisions. I anticipate that this will be an ongoing process during the next few years as both our children go through their teens. I believe that those skills are at least as valuable as whatever qualifications they may choose to get.Alliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11321428226929318418noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-6000308022973697602010-06-03T05:19:26.268-07:002010-06-03T05:19:26.268-07:00So will GCSEs still exist in a few years? Or will ...So will GCSEs still exist in a few years? Or will they have morphed into something else? When people ask me about exams, that's the answer I give, because it is several years before we need to consider that (not having one of those exceptional children who gets sixteen GCSEs by the age of ten). It doesn't stop me pushing my LA to encourage them to provide exam support, because that's useful to all home educators that want it, but at the moment exams are not even on the radar for day-to-day education.Dave Hnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-65803826558307711742010-06-03T04:29:09.385-07:002010-06-03T04:29:09.385-07:00Allie, I wasn't presenting this as a choice be...Allie, I wasn't presenting this as a choice between a right path and a wrong one. I'm sorry if I gave that impression. It's just that an awful lot of parents seem to think that it does not matter particularly about GCSEs and they assume that a portfolio of work will do the trick for the college or university. Deciding not to do GCSEs does have serious consequences for the child. I don't think that at the age of twelve, my daughter was capable fully of understanding the way that her options would be restricted without GCSEs. As her parent, it was my duty to make the decision on her behalf. Obviously, at this stage in her life if she did not wish to study for A levels, then that is up to her.Simon Webbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10865289865412656573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-65406735786203516622010-06-03T03:54:56.359-07:002010-06-03T03:54:56.359-07:00Yup, agree with that.
Sad to have to put my child...Yup, agree with that.<br /><br />Sad to have to put my child's education on hold in order to sit exams, but have been doing that, nonetheless, in order to keep all doors open in life.<br /><br />Once the exams are all finished next week, I suspect that he will pick up his education again for a few months before A Levels at college begin. <br /><br />He's already champing at the bit, planning what he wants to learn over the summer. LOL!<br /><br />Mrs AnonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com