tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post9009892716174894160..comments2024-03-20T00:30:11.702-07:00Comments on Home Education Heretic: Home educating parents presenting as problem familiesSimon Webbhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10865289865412656573noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-87954322139607176982013-05-07T15:18:21.601-07:002013-05-07T15:18:21.601-07:00I really don't understand why people like Webb...I really don't understand why people like Webb think monitoring home educators is a good idea. SS are supposedly trained in child protection & fail are known to fail children regularly. The same children who were monitored more than once a year. We are back to the statistics where these children are more likely to be still at school. They are failed by those who are supposedly trained to help them. <br /><br />I hardly went to school as a child. That didn't mean it was because I was being abused at home it was because I was hit by a teacher so I took a disliking to all teachers because they were all capable of hitting me & getting away with it just like that teacher. The hitting of kids by teachers still happen & teachers still get away with it. These same teachers who are trained in child protection. For the record I also know of a childminder who's going through court at the moment for hitting kids in her care. Going on the last blog that is a carer outside of the family so not abuse by a carer is someone in the familyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-5052129490635738572013-05-07T10:43:03.290-07:002013-05-07T10:43:03.290-07:00'The fact to which I was referring is that the...'The fact to which I was referring is that there is no evidence that home educated children are any more at risk than any other group of children. '<br /><br />That is very possibly so; but quite irrelevant. I am making the point here that confusions can arise between the behaviour of various parents. Simon Webbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10865289865412656573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-90578530238500690912013-05-07T10:35:05.960-07:002013-05-07T10:35:05.960-07:00The fact to which I was referring is that there is...The fact to which I was referring is that there is no evidence that home educated children are any more at risk than any other group of children. <br /><br />According to the NSPCC in June 2012, there are no collated statistics for actual child abuse in the UK. <br /><br />http://www.nspcc.org.uk/Inform/research/statistics/prevalence_and_incidence_of_child_abuse_and_neglect_wda48740.html<br /><br />Enjoy your hiatus.<br />AnneAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-32998884827915569432013-05-07T10:00:36.919-07:002013-05-07T10:00:36.919-07:00This may justify additional attention to individua...This may justify additional attention to individual families but I still fail to see the link to your original question about the targeting of home educators wholesale.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-10648529563710736712013-05-07T08:18:11.489-07:002013-05-07T08:18:11.489-07:00Worn out old Webb says " This is why local au...Worn out old Webb says " This is why local authorities apparently target home educators wholesale and do not fine tune their attentions so that they are focused more upon the families who actually need help; <br /><br />or is because the home educating parents/child wont do as they box ticking LA demands.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-85407343468820039672013-05-07T07:49:28.793-07:002013-05-07T07:49:28.793-07:00'You seem to be justifying or explaining the t...'You seem to be justifying or explaining the targeting of all home educators for special attention by local authorities on the basis that some of them look like other families they target. Or have I misinterpreted your article.'<br /><br />I am saying that a relatively minor thing such as skipping vaccinations can attract attention. If a parent asked about this becomes vociferous, and this is interpreted as aggression; this is another feature that is noted. Subsequent failure to take up a school place can be seen as part of the same pattern, particularly when somebody knocking on the door to ask about this is refused entry to the home. All these things can have perfectly simple and innocent explanations, but the more signs that are seen; the more likely it is that other professionals will get drawn in. I am describing how things actually are; not setting out my own ideas on how they should be. These are some of the ways that home educators can find themselves being viewed with suspicion.Simon Webbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10865289865412656573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-809821343818645832013-05-07T07:28:24.868-07:002013-05-07T07:28:24.868-07:00'So someone who disagrees with your conclusion...'So someone who disagrees with your conclusions must inevitably know nothing about the issue. Interesting train of thought...'<br /><br />That's not really how I read Anne's comment. I understood her to be saying that I was relating my own prejudices and views, rather than describing facts. My conclusions are another thing entirely and may indeed not be shared by everybody!<br />Simon Webbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10865289865412656573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-14975863700225928662013-05-07T07:23:47.987-07:002013-05-07T07:23:47.987-07:00' We don't have a children's database ...' We don't have a children's database so I'm not sure how the local authority would find out that the family who prefers reports to home visits also avoid vaccinations, for instance. Or are you suggesting that simply preferring to send in a report is sufficient to trigger an enquiry that will turn up this type of additional information?'<br /><br />I was musing really about the types of behaviour which raise eyebrows, rather than specifically thinking about home educators. I have certainly known declining vaccinations to arouse interest; for obvious reasons.Simon Webbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10865289865412656573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-75353962140841937482013-05-07T07:21:09.485-07:002013-05-07T07:21:09.485-07:00So someone who disagrees with your conclusions mus...So someone who disagrees with your conclusions must inevitably know nothing about the issue. Interesting train of thought...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-38610487392805439952013-05-07T07:19:44.361-07:002013-05-07T07:19:44.361-07:00Home educators represent a tiny proportion of thos...Home educators represent a tiny proportion of those who fit the profile and you've provided no evidence to suggest that they form anything other than a small proportion of home educators. So what point are you attempting to make? <br /><br />The behaviours you are describing (giving a false address at A&E, for instance) will trigger further investigation for home educators in much the same way as it does for similar school using families. Why should local authorities target home educators wholesale as a high risk group (if that's what they do)? We don't have a children's database so I'm not sure how the local authority would find out that the family who prefers reports to home visits also avoid vaccinations, for instance. Or are you suggesting that simply preferring to send in a report is sufficient to trigger an enquiry that will turn up this type of additional information?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-88087832273065420902013-05-07T06:53:12.287-07:002013-05-07T06:53:12.287-07:00'The trouble is, many innocent families fit th...'The trouble is, many innocent families fit the supposed profile of an abusive family, in fact, many more innocent families fit these 'profiles' than guilty families. The few home educators who fit the profile are effectively a drop in the ocean and as a result not really worth separate consideration.'<br /><br />All of which is true, as far as it goes. If every time time a family were encountered who fitted the profile, social services kicked the down the door and took their children off to an orphanage; then this would be a serious problem. This is not what happens. Nobody is going to have a file opened on them because they do not have their children vaccinated. If though, in addition to that, it is found that the child has been taken to two different hospitals with injuries and that the parents are giving a false address; then this might make people ask more questions about what is going on.<br /><br />Of course many of those fitting these criteria will be quite innocent, but I do not see that as a good reason not to make enquiries. What I am driving at is simple. There are certain traits and behaviours which are commonly observed in dysfunctional families. Some of these characteristics may also be seen in families who are perfectly happy and healthy. The more of these various signs that are present, the more likely that something is wrong. This is not a science and often detection of abuse relies as much on hunches and guesswork as anything else. Unfortunately, many of the things that we associate with home educating parents are the kind of things that trigger interest from professionals; avoiding vaccinations, refusing to allow people into the home, unwillingness to engage and so on.Simon Webbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10865289865412656573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-91118151255131524352013-05-07T06:34:07.519-07:002013-05-07T06:34:07.519-07:00Simon said,
"I remarked a few days ago that ...Simon said,<br />"I remarked a few days ago that some home educating parents, whether wittingly or otherwise, seem to mimic the lifestyles and conduct of habitual abusers."<br /><br />The trouble is, many innocent families fit the supposed profile of an abusive family, in fact, many more innocent families fit these 'profiles' than guilty families. The few home educators who fit the profile are effectively a drop in the ocean and as a result not really worth separate consideration. The following paragraph about predictive screening tools is taken from the paper, 'Predicting child abuse and neglect: ethical, theoretical and methodological challenges', published in the Journal of Clinical Nursing' 2008, and I've read other papers that reach similar conclusions.<br /><br /><i>"Screening checklists are in danger of producing a large pool of ‘false positives’ i.e. children who are believed to be at risk, but who in fact are never abused or neglected, and ‘false negatives’, where children are not seen as at any risk yet are later maltreated (Cadzow et al. 1999). Using such a checklist, Browne and Saqi (1988) identified 949 families (from a total of 14,238) who were ‘high risk’. Of these, only one in 17 went on to abuse their children. Thus, 16 out of 17 families were falsely labelled as potential abusers. As with all screening tests, there is a trade-off in minimising false positives at the expense of increasing false negatives and vice versa and researchers need to decide what are the acceptable levels of ‘false positives’ they can allow (Dingwall 1989). Screening tools for child abuse and neglect have been shown to have false positive rates of between 13–26% and false negative rates ranging from 14·3–63% (Lyons et al. 1996). In fact, it is statistically unfeasible to predict accurately child abuse (Kaufman & Zigler 1992). The systematic review on screening instruments to predict child maltreatment by Peters and Barlow (2003) concluded that the possibility of predicting which parents will maltreat their children is fallacy. Unfortunately proponents of predictive risk assessment strategies acknowledge the limitations yet continue to promote them."</i>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-62587431891537502142013-05-07T03:06:06.102-07:002013-05-07T03:06:06.102-07:00'your own prejudices and experiences rather th...'your own prejudices and experiences rather than the facts.'<br /><br />By which I take it that you are not familiar with the fact that dysfunctional families often share common characteristics and believe that this is something that I have dreamed up? You really don't know why skipping appointments for vaccinations can set alarm bells ringing and know nothing about the fact that aggressive children often have aggressive parents? I am sorry that you don't know about these things and am quite happy for you to imagine that it is all just some bee in my own personal bonnet! Simon Webbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10865289865412656573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881402584568285627.post-42568339172791915662013-05-07T02:58:41.917-07:002013-05-07T02:58:41.917-07:00The sun is shining, and I have better things to do...The sun is shining, and I have better things to do than comment on another post that reflects your own prejudices and experiences rather than the facts. I hope that when you come back from your hiatus you will have found a new hobby horse to ride.<br /><br /><br /><br />AnneAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com