Wednesday 26 August 2009
A personal message!
I thought it might be worth reminding some of those who seem to get so ratty with my views on home education, that this is a subject dear to my heart. For over twenty years I have worked in the East End supporting families containing children with special educational needs. As part of this work, I have helped a number of families to deregister their children from special schools so that they can be educated at home. I never for a moment considered sending my own child to a school. What this means is that since the mid eighties, long before it became a fashionable, middle class craze like Pilates or organic food, I have been deeply involved both professionally and personally with home education. The way some people talk, one might think that I was opposed to the whole idea!
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You are opposed to home education unless you do it the right way and you also want people to be checked visited by there LEA! and there children to be interviewed alone that is your type of home education. you are a mouth voice for Graham Badman who you met.
ReplyDeletepeopel are ratty with your views because you agree with LEA officers and Badman and appear to be against parents i guess you belive that parents can not be trusted with there children but lEA staff can be?
Tell me Mr. Williams, do you plan to return to your former career of paint sprayer once your son is sixteen, or do you now feel that your talents lie in the field education?
ReplyDeleteTwo opposing views, I’ve now come across many people who are in principle for the Badman review.
ReplyDeleteThe problems arise from that many people fall into the autonomous approach to education even if semi-structured, so those that follow a strict, no touchy feel approach to home ed will not speak up that they agree with Badman as they know what the outcome will be within home ed groups. This is why I’m not a fan of Home ed groups, supposedly autonomous approach becomes rather structured in these groups.
All these people that say we have the right to choose, I agree but I also agree that people have a right to support the Badman review.
In chess with Peter full time as it takes many years to develop fully as a chess player after age 16 its not a magic cut off date thats the teacher in you simon! we have a number of goals to reach including inproving internatinal chess grade(it is high now but it will go higher) and of course english chess grade along with targeting a number of chess events here and aboard but i do give advice to children chess parents and we are very respected and people have thanked us for the advice which we give for free as a number of the mothers/fathers where unsure how to go about inproving the children play at chess. i am very pleased to see a number of juniors we give advice to get much stronger at there chess and often get the juniors come and thank us along with there parents and where also amazed that we did it for nothing! many a hour i have spent with a parent junior explaining to them not to give up and yes you will do if you follow this advice and listen because there can see what a brillent player Peter is.You go on a stage and play a real chess game which can last many hours with people watching your every move with the chess clock ticking which Peter does and then see what its like Peter is a respected chess player who is liked every where he goes and he himself will always spend time with any chess player no matter how weak! I have seen some very draft advice given by state schooled teachers! Why is this Simom?
ReplyDeleteThats what hurts is it not simom that a parent with NO formal tests behind his name can home educate had no traning in how to teach chess but appears we did a very good job i wonder why? its not tick boxes you want its a love of of what ever you do this gets you learning not some one forcing you to most state school teachers have to! is becuase the lessons are to boring? force does not work the child can see this as can the child when the teacher has a real love of the subject i remember a girl very weak player at chess going to give up its to hard she said and i sat with her and very slowly showed her give some ideas but real slow she just needed some one to spemd time with her and not rush her i did this over a number of weeks for free and do you know she has become a very strong girl player and always when ever i see her thanks me along with her parents it was because i love chess that she could see i cared deeply about what she was doing wrong but after a few mintues with her i just knew she become very good.She had had so called teachers at school showing her and tution at home but those people only did it for the money and the teachers never really cared about chess to them it was just some thing to fill time untill the bell rang!
The paint sprayering job was good money helped pay for this house!
you are an agent for Graham Badman?DCSF because you only want home education done in the right way they is no right way that is what you miss!
you do not trist parents is that because you mix to much with LEA officers?
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ReplyDeleteI thought a selection of these would prove useful.
Nice one, Anonymous!
ReplyDelete"All these people that say we have the right to choose, I agree but I also agree that people have a right to support the Badman review."
ReplyDeleteBadman's review attempts to limit choice, so anyone supporting the Badman review is attempting to limit the choice of others.
What is it with the obsession with 'marking work' on this site? Are you all ex English teachers?
ReplyDeletewhat are those funny symbols Anonymous? if you use them wrong do you get reported to teacher? or LEA officer?
ReplyDeleteNo don't worry, you won't be reported if you use them wrongly; you will just appear illiterate. Not perhaps a wholly novel experience for you?
ReplyDeletewe wanted you to report us not got the balls for it simon thought you belived that if a child is not geting education something should be done? if as you claim i am ilterate how come the LEA refused to take action then? i think Jim scared dont you? been called a lot worse names could think of a few names for you but i wont just yet!
ReplyDeleteno what hurts you is that we will just carry on home educating in our way not allowing LEA to visit or to have a meeting 6 years and no visits or meetings how much does that hurt simon? we told them to clear off and funny thing is there did! we burnt a number of Jim letters on a counclior fire place he thought it was crap to! and he said save some of the letters for lighting a fire which he used it for!
Oh Mr rambling anon of Hampshire - I have no idea why you seem to spend time baiting Simon, but since you asked my views on Badman - I have posted them on the end of the marathon thread dated Tuesday if that is of interest.
ReplyDeleteJulie it was Simon who Baited home educators by his blinked support of Graham Badman ideas and refuse to see the damge Badman will do to home education. i think Simon also a bit upset that he never had the balls to tell his LEA to Clear off he just went meekly along with his LEA! did you make tea when there come round Simon? have answered you in that marathon thread of tuesday! hope the exams went well!
ReplyDeletePeter has just recevied a letter from David Cameron M.P in which he says The Shadow Education Team have raised a number of concerns about the latest consultation,most notably that The department for Children.Schools,and Families tried to imply that home education was being used as a cover for child abuse.We find this offensive to those parents who often have to make a very difficult decision about withdrawing their child from school.
ReplyDeleteWe belive it is essential that every child in this country recives a frist-class education and one that is suitable to their needs.To achieve that.parentss should have the right to choose the education systen that best serves their child and home schooling should be included in this choice.Parents who make this choice should be etitled to the same presumption of innocence and competence that school going children's parents,recieve unless evidence dictates otherwise.
The shadow Eduction team find it incredible that he government held yet another consultation on the issue of home education this is now the fourth consulation in as many years.
No where does it mention in his letter does it state that M.Grove M.P wants more legal power over hom education.This letter from Mr Cameron M.P is a statemnet from the whole of the Shadow Education team including Mr M.Grove M.P.
What do you think of that Simon is Mr David Cameron M.P wrong then?
I have no personal gripe with the author of this blog. However the author of this blog seems to have a personal gripe with autonomous home-educators, and since I am one of those, I do have to wonder exactly what the problem is.
ReplyDeleteAfter all, does it really matter how someone else goes about home-ed as long as you can do it in the way you choose?
Whether a home-education method or philosophy works or not is down to the goals of the educating parent. An efficient education is one which achieves that which it sets out to achieve, therefore no external testing can measure it unless the education sets out to achieve certain standards set down by external bodies. This is not currently a requirement, thankfully!
So what's the problem?
I have no gripe with autonomous educaation per se, Tracy. However, with a certain number of teenagers being deregistered from school, particularly at the age of fourteen or fifteen, there is little real intent to provide an education and "autonomous eductaion" becomes a cover for "no education". I do not say that the majority of autonomous educators are like that, but I encounter quite a few and it is a problem. So until it becomes possible to establish in some way whether or not an education is taking place, whether autonomously or otherwise, I remain a little dubious about some home education. I know that this is happening because I visit the homes and I do not think it good for the children concerned. So in short, I have no gripe with autonomous education but I think that sometimes it can be used as an excuse not to educate.
ReplyDelete"I visit the homes and I do not think it good for the children concerned."
ReplyDeleteSo how would you tell during a short visit when the parents may be more concerned with the reason for your visit than their teenagers? Most teenagers are old enough to sort their own education out anyway and this can happen at any time of the day or night. Why would it happen whilst you were there?
Your strangely personal posts about individual home educators still appear in the Google cache. I suggest you take an hour out to cool down before hitting send if you have any doubts.
ReplyDeleteIt was strangely personal because the woman concerned is like a stalker. I only put up that post for a bit to get her to keep away!
ReplyDeleteSo she is constantly harassing or threatening you?
ReplyDeleteDoes that mean you are stalking autonomous education? Is it possible to stalk a theory? You certainly seem obsessed with it if you blog is anything to go by.
ReplyDeleteI have to agree with a lot of what you say Simon. Some of the so-called autonomous "education" that goes on around where I live is tantamount to child abuse in my opinion. It's one thing choosing to opt out of state education, it's quite another to opt out of society. You've only got to look at the recent HESFES debacle to see the results.
ReplyDeleteShe is a nuisance. She has been making unpleasant and personal remarks about me and then came here and started posting idiotic comments. I am trying to make sure that she stops. No, it is not possible to stalk a theory. This is called debate and I am happy to discuss home education with anybody. To the person who accused me of making "strangely personal" posts, may I remind him or her that this is my Blog, not the online edition of New Scientist! Posting personal opinions is what people do on blogs.
ReplyDeleteThank you, mother of two! A little common sense and very refreshing too.
ReplyDeleteAutonomous education equals opting out of society? That's the first time I've heard that. What are you talking about?
ReplyDeleteIf you want a debate it would be useful if you understood anything about AE. You seem to have confused it with informal learning, laissez-faire parenting, opting out of society, abuse (judging by your endorsment of 'mother of 2's views), not teaching children, the banning of structure and cults, none of which are accurate.
ReplyDelete"I thought it might be worth reminding some of those who seem to get so ratty with my views on home education, that this is a subject dear to my heart. For over twenty years I have worked in the East End supporting families containing children with special educational needs."
ReplyDeleteSo this is why you think you know more than the professors of education and various teachers around the world who have studied informal learning in close detail and found it to be an effective way for children to learn. You've been employed to tutor a few children (in a structured, formal way) whilst home educating one child in a structured coercive way, so of course you are an authority on a autonomous education. Aren't we stupid not to realise that and ignore the evidence of our own eyes.
Well John, I don't know why you think that I have been employed to tutor any children? I have never done such a thing in my life! Are you sure that you are not confusing me with somebody else?
ReplyDeleteSorry, my mistake. As you have been a primary teacher I had assumed that your support of families containing children with SEN involved tutoring. But the point remains the same. Just replace, 'You've been employed to tutor a few children (in a structured, formal way)' with "You've been employed to teach primary children in a classroom (in a structured, formal, coercive way)".
ReplyDelete"It was strangely personal because the woman concerned is like a stalker. I only put up that post for a bit to get her to keep away!"
ReplyDeleteDoes that apply to the other strangely personal post that disappeared too? How many of these, there one minute, gone the next, posts have there been? I've seen at least 2. Are they all aimed at 'stalkers'? What about the various times you have falsely accused commentators of being someone else? Do you take pleasure in bullying and victimising people or do you have problems with paranoia?
Re the HESFES comment - OUCH! I went once and hope to never go again. Disorganised rambling mess of an event.
ReplyDeleteI wish all the Anonymous people could identify themselves with numbers! Otherwise, they will no know to whom I am speaking. I have put two "strangely personal posts" up for ten minutes each and then pulled them. The first was to get rid of Ali Edgley, who only came on here to shout abuse at me. The second was yesterday. As I say, this is a personal Blog, not an academic journal. I am happy to debate home education, but some people just come here to be unpleasant. If I can persuade such people to go away, I shall do so. I am alsways happy to debate home education reasonably, but I get a little fed up with rudeness. The "strangely personal" post about Ali Edgley had the desired effect, I can only hope that the one about Maire Stafford also works to that end.
ReplyDeleteBy the by, another thing that puzzles me greatly is that when people post rude and unpleasant things about Graham Badman, everybody laughs and says, "Well done, that shows him!". I refer to the spoof Blog which is a great hit amonf home educators. When I do a similar thing to individual home educators, that is seen as bullying and victimising. Why should there be this distinction?
ReplyDeletePublic interest? Badman has been paid by taxpayers to provide a service and has the potential to adversely effect peoples lives. In defamation cases, a public official or public figure must prove actual malice, a private individual must only prove negligence to collect compensatory damages. I would suggest that similar differences apply to this situation.
ReplyDeleteYes well, Graham Badman may be a publicly funded Aunt Sally; I am not. If people are very rude about me on a public forum, over a long period of time, then I am likely to be similarly rude to them. I cannot help noticing that when Maire Stafford was referring to me as "a strange, deluded man" and speculating that I was mentally ill on HE-UK, that was not regarded as bullying and victimisation. When I indulge in a little teasing, everybody throws up their hands in horror!
ReplyDeleteBut you have put yourself forward as an expert in home education (a teacher with 20 years professional and personal experience of home education) and have accused a large number of home educators of being abusive of their children and failing in their legal duties in order to earn a fee.
ReplyDelete"For over twenty years I have worked in the East End supporting families containing children with special educational needs...I have been deeply involved both professionally and personally with home education."
ReplyDeleteI hope you will forgive me if I take this with a pinch of salt? You have also claimed to be a primary school teacher and have a daughter attending secondary school when it suited your argument. You seem to invent identities so that you can argue from a place of authority. Why should we believe you now?
What do you want, my CV? Older daughter who does not live with me attended secondary school from 2000 to 2005. I am now 55 and have been doing this line of work since 1986. I don't think that you should have any difficulty with the figures, but if you want to believe otherwise, who am I to stop you?
ReplyDeleteSo when you wrote, "As a primary school teacher, I have occasionally enlivened a history lesson in this way", would it have been more accurate to say, "When I was a primary school teacher, I occasionally enlivened a history lesson in this way"?
ReplyDeleteBut either way, how does your CV make you an authority on AE?
You have gone from 46 to 44 articles since earlier. Which 2 posts got deleted?
ReplyDeleteHey Anonymous, why don't you come out from the shadows and then we can talk properly. I feel a little uneasy about giving too much personal information to somebody who won't even tell me his or her name! Don't be shy.
ReplyDeleteYou did invite people to comment anonymously, having second thoughts? But please don't reveal anything you feel uncomfortable revealing. Remember, you are potentially telling everyone with internet access, not just me!
ReplyDeleteI've remembered the one you deleted in addition to the HE-UK post, it was the one titled Free Speech.
ReplyDeleteIndeed it was, and since it was I who wrote it I feel quite at liberty to publish it, or delete it as the mood takes me. As I have already remarked, this is a personal Blog and not a public facility. While I am still more than happy to allow people to post here anonymously, I may on occasion be reluctant to enter into a long debate with such individuals. I have cheerfully posted my name, photograph and home email address. The more open others are about their identity in this way, the happier I shall feel about disclosing my thoughts and opinions.
ReplyDeleteDon't worry, it wasn't a critism, I was just curious. Not sure why an identity is important when you are disclosing those same thoughts and opinions to countless unknowns who read without posting. I thought you preferred responding to ideas? Why would you need to know whos idea it is?
ReplyDeleteIdeas are one thing, my personal history is quite another. Above, Anonymous is asking me about my daughter and career. These are matters that I feel more comfortable discussing with people who are as open about themselves as I am. Saying " You claimed to have a daughter attending secondary school" sounds less like an idea and more like somebody fishing for information about my family. That is the point at which I might choose not to respond.
ReplyDeleteI don't know about any other anonymouses (is that a word?) but I would have absolutely no interest in your family if you didn't use information about them in order to argue from authority (20 years professional and personal experience of home education). I mean, you say you never intended to send Simone to school but around the time she was born, your other daughter was just starting school (or did she just go to secondary?). You have admitted lying when writing articles in the past (once claiming to be a woman, for instance), so why the surprise when people doubt you now?
ReplyDeleteI am neither surprised nor at all worried if people doubt what I say. If you knew about the world of journalism, you would know that editors often require people to adopt different identities. I used to write a lot for both True Detective and Prediction. In order to preserve the illusion that these are written by a wide variety of of people, the editors of both asked me to choose a different identity if more than one of my articles was scheduled to appear in an edition. For women's magazines and anything to do with childcare, editors know that a lot of women feel happier reading what women say rather than men. As a result I have in the past found myself being transgendered without any prior notice! Perhaps if you looked into this subject a little, you would realise how it works and stop carping on at me about how this particular industry operates.
ReplyDeleteChanging the name you sign as you describe seems very different to changing your occupation and information about you life in order to argue from authority (using false 'facts' to support your arguement). Have you been a primary school teacher?
ReplyDeleteAs I think I have already remarked Anonymous, there is a limit to how much personal information I am prepared to disclose to strangers. Even letting people know my real name caused me a good deal of trouble when some lunatic discovered that somebody called Simon Webb used to work with Graham Badman in Kent! It was not I, but this false rumour was soon all over the place. Why not tell us your own real name, your email address and perhaps post a photograph and your child's name? I have done all these things and I think that this is plenty of personal information to be going on with.
ReplyDeleteI would not dream of abusing my child's privacy in that way. I hate the thought of their friends or employers searching for their name on the internet some time in the distant future and stumbling upon my ramblings, can't think of anything more embarrassing or inappropriate.
ReplyDeleteDoes this mean you have not been a primary school teacher?
ReplyDeleteWell Anonymous, in that case don't tell us your child's name. Just let us know your own name and email address, together with a brief CV. By the way, one of the main problems with people hiding behind the cloak of anonymity is that I get a bit confused. Are the two posts above by two separate people or are they both by the same person?
ReplyDeleteI meant I wouldn't want my child's friends or employers stumbling accross my name in future. For various reasons it would be obvious that I am my child's parent. Does it matter if we are the same person, or two different anonymous commentators? Just reply to comments instead of personalities as you have said you would prefer.
ReplyDeleteSo let me get this straight. You are cross examining about my life and asking me to supply a CV, while at the same time refusing to share any information about yourself whatsoever. Have I got that right? If that is really your position, then I shall have to decline to answer any further questions. I am sure that readers will understand why.
ReplyDeleteBut I'm not trying to use my past as a claim to authority, you are. You said elsewhere that you are a primary teacher because it made your arguments more convincing. You claim 20 years of professional and personal involvement with home education and that you never intended to send your daughter to school for the same reasons. If you have lied in the past in order to make an argument more convincing, why should we believe similar arguments now? That's the difference between you and I. Obviously you do not have to reply or give any more information than you already have, but it must shed doubt on any past and future claims to authority if you refuse.
ReplyDelete"Have you been a primary school teacher?"
ReplyDeleteThat's a no then?
Sorry, Anonymous, I will not be drawn into this any more. I will say though, that I am not claiming any authority at all for my views; they are no more than personal opinions. I sometimes mention parts of my past, as these might shed light upon why I hold certain views. Besides, are you really saying that if I gave details of my educational and professional background, this would lend more authority to my views than if I was a single mother who left school at sixteen? An extraordinary view and one I cannot agree with.
ReplyDeleteThe best way of explaining what I mean is to tell you that some years ago I had to attend case conferences for children at risk. There would be CPNs, an Ed Psych, sometimes police officers and so on. Every so often, a parent would get in on the act. Very irritating. What I noticed was that the parent would always preface her remarks with words such as, "I'm only a parent..." or perhaps "Speaking as a Mum.."
Of course, they always knew far more than the rest of us about the case; it was, after all, their child! You are evidently saying that you will give more weight to my opinions if I prove to you precisely what my qualifications and experience are. I am just a parent. I claim no authority beyond this and if it irritates you to read of any reminiscence of mine in connection with home education then just skip over that bit, eh?
Great! So we agree that parents know their child best so will know what kind of education is best suited to them. We can all forget being overseen and controlled by 'professionals' and get on with our lives, brilliant!
ReplyDeleteWell, I have no idea whether Simon was or was not once a primary teacher; I do know that I was once a secondary teacher - in fact I think I still am a teacher...both because I teach others' children and because I teach my own. Actually perhaps that is a suitable topic for discussion....do the less "autonomous" sort of home educator see themselves as "teachers"/"instructors" of their children whereas the very word "teacher" and thus "homeschooler" would be anathema to the more "autonomous" types of home edder?
ReplyDeleteInteresting point, Julie. I am prepared to be proved wrong here, but I have known some autonomous types who described themselves as facilitators or enablers. I have certainly never heard an autonomous parent call herself a teacher! This may also be because the word "teacher" in our society is used almost invariably to mean "school teacher". So some parents might be reluctant to claim to be teachers in the same way that they would not describe themselves as nurses, even though they may well nurse a sick child.
ReplyDeleteOccasionally my children have asked me to teach them particular things, like playing a musical instrument, reading or maths, for example. To me autonomous means child led; they decide if, when, how and where they learn. If that includes structure, even to the extent of going to school, it is still autonomous if it's the child's choice. So yes, sometimes I am a teacher.
ReplyDelete