Those who have not themselves been home educators, which includes I suppose about 99.99% of the population, do not generally realise how the effects of home education tend to pervade every aspect of one's life. Those used to the "School run", who take for granted the shouting at the children in the morning, the hurried breakfast and the mad rush to get to the school on time, do not know how relaxed the morning of the average home educating parent is by comparison. On the downside, neither can they fully appreciate the loneliness and isolation felt by many home educators. Not for them the regular gossip at the school gates, the social circle formed of the parents of the child's classmates and so on.
The very expression "Home education" can be a little misleading. It suggests that this is essentially just a different way of educating a child. It is not. The decision to home educate has a profound and all pervasive effect on every part of a family's life. It is an interesting and debateable point whether or not this lifestyle is simply a by-product of home education, or whether home education is a by-product of the desire for this alternative lifestyle! Research in this country suggests strongly that the desire for better family relationships and being able to choose the pace of life are among the things that parents value most about home education. I have, apropos of family relationships, noticed that home educating parents seem to get on better with their children. A lot of the parents of school children whom I know seem to be in a state of semi-permanent conflict with their kids. The atmosphere in home educating homes is certainly more restful and loving. I realise that this is merely anecdotal evidence, but I know others have observed the same thing. Perhaps it is due to the fact that home educating parents like their children and want to spend time with them. They are not desperately anxious to pack them off to nursery as soon as they can walk, nor do they view the Summer with dread, bring with it as it does the prospect of spending weeks in the company of their children.
There also seems to be something mildly addictive about the whole home education thing, something which makes parents reluctant to drop the whole thing, even when they are no longer officially home educators. This thought was precipitated by my constantly seeing Fiona Nicholson's name still cropping up all over the place in connection with home education. Like me, Fiona ceased to be a bona fide home educator on Friday, June 26th 2009. And yet, again like me, she seems quite unable to tear herself away from the world of home education. Readers at this point are probably snorting with derision and remarking to themselves that this is a bit rich coming from me. After all, months after I stopped being a home educator myself I am still appearing before select committees and shooting my mouth off on television! Where do I get off drawing attention to Fiona Nicholson's inability to break loose of the whole home education thing?
Fiona and I are of course not the only ones who find it hard to move on. I shall not name any more names, but a few of the people one sees on the lists are of parents whose children have either returned to school or have turned sixteen some while since. Why should this be? After all, those whose children have left secondary school do not hang round the school gates like restless ghosts. That stage of their children's lives has ended and they forget about it. This makes me think that home education means more to most of us than just education.
Clearly, my own methods of home education are not those of a large section of the home educating community. They have more in common with Mr. Gradgrind's utilitarian philosophy as expressed in Hard Times. All the same, I cannot just forget about home education and treat it as of no more significance than as though my daughter had been at some school. Quite clearly, the whole thing meant something to me, something more than mere education. I am pretty sure that a lot of other parents feel the same about this enterprise. Whatever methods of education they used, whether fanatically structured or completely autonomous, the whole lifestyle which went along with the education must surely have been at least as important to parents as the learning itself?
Simon said Not for them the regular gossip at the school gates.the social circle formed of the parents of the child's classmates and so on.
ReplyDeleteWhat about the social circle formed at home educating groups? we have made some real friend though these groups.
We also know that some of the social circles formed at school by parents can be of a bullying way or of a way of showing off to other parents!some social groups frrmed at school by parents are like presure groups and are often trying to push they child forward to the teacher/head then in turn the teacher /head use these parents put them on governing board to use as rubber stamp of everything they do! I think these social groups fromed at school by parents teach them that bullying does work!
Actually Simon I think you are technically wrong (me being pedantic again)- your dd may have gone on to college so you are not home educating, anymore than I am, but Fiona's son is still home educated, just post 16!
ReplyDelete(- however I am not sure whether you can ever stop being a home educator whilst the "children" are still living at home.... I am sure you are still contributing to your daughter's education - just not full time. I am off to make sure my daughter understands trigonometry before she gets in to college today... no autonomy here!
Thank you for correcting me on this point, Julie. yes, of course I am sure that Fiona's son is still learning at home. And you are right, I am still contributing to my daughter's education. I had quite forgotten, by the way, that you were another ex-home educator!
ReplyDelete(Trigonometry over)
ReplyDeleteI don't feel very "ex" at all... my daughter still needs a lot of support (which is why she is only doing two AS at college this year, although she did take another at home anyway a couple of years ago) and I spend 2 days a week teaching other home educators children, so am still in the thick of it.
Would you still be so "around" if home educators were not in the midst of interesting legal changes which you still feel strongly about, I wonder? I know you do make a living by writing about issues, but this is of course a much more dramatic period than the last 10 years or so of your own daughters education.
Well of course it is perfectly true that the world of home education is in a state of flux at the moment and that might have some bearing on why I am unable simply to forget it. I suppose also, I have been connected in some way or other to the idea of alternative education for so long that I probably will never lose interest in it entirely. Anyway, I have some excuse, because for the last three months or so I've been writing a book on the subject which is scheduled to come out in July; academic work aimed very much at local authority officers, teachers and other professionals inthe field of education. Now this has gone off to the publisher, maybe I will be taking a less active interest in affairs!
ReplyDeleteno new laws have been passed yet on home education and it would appear that bill will run out of time in the lords?
ReplyDeleteThe Children, Schools and Families Bill 2009 has not yet received Royal assent. Some people certainly hope that this will never happen. This may however be the triumph of hope over experience. We shall have to wait until May or June to be sure about this.
ReplyDeleteSimon, many more HE'ers are continuing with HE beyond 16 these days. The HE exams group has quite a few parents who are now taking their kids through A Levels. But also, there are those who were not ready for formal exams at 16 but who are going for them at 17 and 18. Why wouldn't those parents still be considered HE'ers.
ReplyDeleteNothing supernatural happens when the child hits 16. It's not a reluctance on the part of HE'ers to 'move on'. It's a recognition that learning doesn't stop at an arbitrary point in their child's life and a willingness to continue to facilitate it beyond 'legal school age'.
Thankfully, people like Julie still make their experience available in informal mentoring situations in the HE community, where, by the way, I never felt lonely or isolated in the sense you describe. We always made sure we had plenty of friends, though it took a more purposeful effort at first to do so.
As always, your experience/opinion seems very out of kilter with mine. I do think gender comes into play here. Also, perhaps, personality. I'm an introvert, but pushed myself to the limits to enable my kids to make friends within the HE community, making some good ones myself along the way.
Mrs Anon
"Perhaps it is due to the fact that home educating parents like their children and want to spend time with them"
ReplyDeleteI didn't like him any less when I sent him to school.
I don't believe for a second that my friends like their children less because they still do.
The angst over holidays I think probably comes from an abrupt gear change rather than a lack of desire to be with ones children. Certainly we are going to suffer this summer going from an internally dictated routine to an external dictated one while he is at summer camp. I don't doubt you will hear much whinging from me as I struggle to get back into shape over things like organizing clothes/lunch/fulfilling requests from the organizers that a certain small person failed to inform me of till the shops were shut which means I have to fit it into an already time crunch early morning dash.
There may well be conflict as we discuss whose fault it is that we are late and missing half the stuff we should have.
Plus I think I'll probably spend six weeks flopping around the house wondering what to do with myself all day, moaning that I am bored and driving the Sock Dropper mad as I get under his feet looking for someone to entertain me.
I think the same happens in reverse as school children and their parents have to try to adapt jobs, routines, external commitments and sudden changes in the amount of free time, by the time they do find their sea legs and are just about getting a groove going, the holidays are over.
Implying that HEing parents like their children / enjoy their children's company more than school users do smacks of yet another layer of Parental Olympics, which in terms of building bridges and fostering comprehension and respect for each others choices is as useful as semtex.
I perfectly understand why a parent might still regard HEing as part of their identity long after their children have finished compulsory education, given their long term investment and commitment.
Which is a good thing, all that accumulated experience would be lost to the greater community if there was a cut off date.
I hope the veterans stay involved long after their children fly the nest. I'm as interested in what they have to say as those who are at the beginning or mid point of the HEing journey.
Simon said-The children.schools and families bill 2009 has not yet received Royal assent.Some people certainly hope that this will never happen.This may however be the triumph of hope over experience.We shall have to wait until May or June to be sure about this.
ReplyDeleteI say it is a bit more than some people dont want this bill passed.I only know one who wants it and that is you and your daugher? maybe Julie as well? that makes the grand total of 3
We know before May because Gordon Brown has to give notice of election and all bills government work in commons stops I think Brown has to give months notice? so at lastest he have to say in April then work stops in commons and bill will run out of time in Lords? your often find out before this cos people who work in polling booths let slip about election. or polling station are booked for May. we have local elections at same time and i think Brown/Labour want to do all at once!
You have the wash up in which the party's horse trade will tories demand home educator bit is droped for further research? or will they agree to horse trade and let it though? i thin kyou should have a post on that simon and contact M.Grove about it?
Well Anonymous, I think that your figures are grossly inflated. I know for a fact that my daughter is firmly against the new legislation, feeling that it is nobody elses business but the families what sort of education is being provided. I can't speak for Julie, but I rather think that she too is opposed to the bill.
ReplyDeleteDear me, I suppose that this would, at least by your calculations, leave me as the only person in the whole of the United Kingdom who is in favour of it! This is certainly an awesome responsibility and I am vastly obliged to you for drawing my attention to it.
Actually - although Simon is right in that I am not in favour of the Bill (largely because I don't like more govt interference in anything, but also because I don't think it will help solve the problems)I have to say that I know personally several home educators who are in favour of the changes. They see it as a way of either weeding out undesirable home educators who they think "let down by the side!" or because they know personally some of the children affected by poor standards/lack of education and feel the children deserve better!
ReplyDeleteAnd then there is the general public - reading the comments on the Guardian article today there are a certain sort out there that think that children need rescuing from their parents...Simon is not in a party of one!.
Simon said "I know for a fact that my daughter is firmly against the new legislation". did she tell Graham Badman that? your the only home educator i know who wants it?
ReplyDeleteJulie said_ I have to say i know personally several home educators who are in favour of change They see it as way of weeding out undesirable home eudcators who they think "let down by the side" did you mean let the side down? or because they know personally some of the children affected by poor standards/lack of eucation and feel the children deserve better.
If these home educators you know personally belive that a child is not receving a sutable full time education they have a duty to report them at once to they LA?
Or is it just a case that these home educators want every one to do it the right way? like a school but at home?
as for the general public its not intersted in what a few home educators do but does want any spare money spent on the school its children go to not wasted on checking up on home educators.
I think you be very luckie to have more than 10 home educators who want these news laws( I dont think they get passed) I count simon in that ten so you need to find 9 more are you out they?
Peter - Simon ceratinly isn't alone - looking at the consultation responses (of which there were apparently 2,222 home educating parents replying)
ReplyDelete621 voted in favour of keeping a register, and even 230 in favour of the whole cooboodle... now that may be a minority... but not insignificant!
Julie -621 voted in favour on keeping a register. one of them would have been Simon? that makes 620?
ReplyDeleteWe had more votes home educators against scored 1601.
I belive we can win the bill will run out of time i got a good feeling about it all. I am awaiting inportant answers to question to Damian Hinds who is conservative candidate for East Hants we met him he is against the bill about home education and he was not just saying that he said it was not high up any one list but he understood why we must not allow this bill to go though! everything is coming together really well the lords M.Gove giving brillent speach in commons torn Balls to bits! government running out of time Brown being called a bully. We can win i know we can!
Simon, what did you say on the Guardian comments that got deleted by a mod? Do tell!!
ReplyDeleteI simply remarked that firebird 2110 of Godalming in Surrey, spent so much of her time posting comments online that I was surprised that she had any time left to educate her child. I mentioned that she commented in local papers as far away as Portsmouth and Lancashire and that patrolling the Internet in this way must be her fulltime job. I then asked in the friendliest way possible whether a governess looked after her child while she was doing this.
ReplyDeleteFirebird of Godalming in Surrey stands up for her right to home educate which is a good! are you saying that she should go away and be quiet because it does not fit in with your views? You make plenty of noise in support of Graham Badman and his daft ideas on home education. you appear to spend plenty of time on the cause in support of DCSF/Balls/Badman are you a card carrying member of the Labour party?
ReplyDeleteI have no objection at all to firebird 2110 posting so many comments. I have just noticed that, like certain other home educators, she is online day and night and I was wondering who was educating her child while she was on the computer. As for being a member of the Labour party, well the closest I have come to that is voting for them in February 1974. I realised my mistake though, and ever since then I have voted Tory.
ReplyDeleteSimon Says- She is online day and night i was wondering who was educating her child while she was on the computer.
ReplyDeleteWell have you thought that her child may be in bed at night while she defends home educators? and during the day the child may be working on some set work that has been given or reading or on lap top in same room? im on a computer now but our child is making a model in same room!
if your voting Tory then your be pleased to know they against DCSF?Balls?Badman and will vote aginst it and use the lords to make the bill run out of time in fact this government has put in to much legislation for this parliamentary session i just had it told to me it is looking really likly that this bill will fail. which is really good news!
I am new here. I just stumbled across this blog whilst looking for home ed info and have read a few posts and comments of yours, but I am truly shocked by this thread!
ReplyDeleteSimon,are you saying that you actually keep track of another home educators online time AND also post their whereabouts on articles open to the public?
Are you a stalker or just darn nosey? I find this incredible! No wonder you were moderated. How incredibly insensitive and personal!
I have also noticed you are but a tiny island in a sea of home educators. Some islands remain uninhabited.. yet the sea of full of life. I'd rather swim with freedom in a deep blue ocean than be inprisoned on golden sands.
It also appears that your daughter's view on this bill does not to matter to you . I find that disturbing too. For there will be other children who feel the same , their views do not matter either I presume?
I am off to find a useful home education site now. One where they support one another and the views of their children.
One hardly needs to stalk firebird 2110. I stumble over her all the time when I am reading comments posted on the Internet. Have a look at the comments yesterday on the Guardian article. I think that there are enough people living in Godalming that her identity has not been compromised by mentioning the name of the town. I rather suspect that her real name is not "firebird" and so it would not be possible to use this information to track her down.
ReplyDeleteWhy on earth you should be disturbed that a sixteen year old girl's views do not happen to coincide with her middle aged father's, I have no idea. I'm afraid it is the way of the world; teenage girls have minds of their own and often disagree with their parents. What exactly is disturbing about this? To be honest, I would find it more disturbing if I heard about a sixteen year old gier who did agree with her father on everything!
what is worrying is that you take NO notice of your daughters view over the Badman ideas!
ReplyDeleteAll that you can possibly know of my daughter's opinion is what I said above;
ReplyDelete"I know for a fact that my daughter is firmly against the new legislation, feeling that it is nobody elses business but the families what sort of education is being provided."
What is there about that which leads you to suppose that I take no notice of her views? It is a disagreement between two family members. Such things are common enough. I am genuinely puzzled to know what you find disturbing about people not agreeing about things. May we assume that in your own family, everybody agrress about everything all the time? I have never belonged to such a family and am a little envious!
There is a difference between disagreeing with a family member and actively campaigning against their views, especially when it is people of her age and younger who will be most affected.
ReplyDeleteYou seem to be saying Anonymous, that you would not vote for a political party if your child did not approve. Presumably, in your family you all agree about everything and if one of you disagrees about something, all the others consider themselves bound by the dissenter's views? I can see the idea in theory, although I have never witnessed this working in practice. If I understand you correctly, you feel that if one of you opposed, say, the building of a new supermarket and another wanted it, then neither person would be free to express their wishes?
ReplyDeleteA closer comparison would be if your daughter ran a grocery store in the local high street and didn't want the supermarket because it would put her out of business. However, you like supermarkets so you actively argue for them and even attending planning meetings in order to argue for them. Do you still see this as OK?
ReplyDeleteHypothetically speaking how many would drop their opposition to the proposals like a hot potato should their child declare that they are of the opinion that the proposals were a really good idea and much needed ?
ReplyDelete"A closer comparison would be if your daughter ran a grocery store in the local high street and didn't want the supermarket because it would put her out of business."
How so ?
His daughter is in mainstream ed.
She is no longer of compulsory school age (it is still 16 isn't it ?)
Even if she were far younger and they were still HEing there is nothing to suggest that they would attract a CSO or have to alter their mode of HE and it would be her father who had to deal with the red tape and officials, not her.
So there's no chance that she will want to home educate her own children? Do you think that the parents having to deal with red tape and officials will have no effect on a child's education? If the current law goes through it will be near impossible to educate as we did. Luckily we will have finished by the time it bites but it would have had a significant effect on the educational choices available to my children. Maybe it wouldn't have affected Simone's education significantly but possibly she is against the new law because she is more empathic of others or might want at least the option of taking a different route herself if it suits any future children better.
ReplyDeleteRe. the hot potatoe issue. My thoughts on that are will one of the options restrict the freedom of others more than the other? Current laws, if they are carried out correctly, are sufficient to protect children from failing to receive an education (especially when ContactPoint is up and running and informal enquiries can be sent to all parents not registered with a school). The effect of the new law will be to reduce educational choices and I cannot see any benefits. Other countries have tried similar schemes and have ended them because there were no benefits. Are we likely to be that different and neglectful compared to parents in Canada (I think) and New Zealand?
I have to say, my daughter and I are on the different side in many contemporary issues. I have always seen this as a healthy thing; that we debate robustly about the important things happening in the world. Imagine how sad it would be if she simply followed my opinion in everything. Can you imagine; a sixteen year old Conservative who approved of fox hunting! Now that would be disturbing.....
ReplyDelete"My thoughts on that are will one of the options restrict the freedom of others more than the other?"
ReplyDeleteSo that's a no then. Your chastisement is limited to people who don't agree with you.
I find the "thou shalt practice mini me in reverse" position to be somewhat unhealthy and not a little patronizing to a young person since it is based on the assumption that they cannot emotionally or intellectually cope with opposing POVs within their family.
As a woman I find the suggestion that I should subjugate my opinions to better suit the men in my household incredibly offensive and very old fashioned.
As a parent I would be far from happy if I had had failed to produce a young adult who was able to grasp that we are separate beings, each with their own identity and as a result was unable to deal with strong disagreement in heavyweight contexts within the family.
I found my self on opposite sides of many coins with my parents, including issues like poll tax, the public order act, "is Thatcher the anti-Christ" and student grants. No lack of squashed rights from my perseptive there.
By not collapsing their belief systems and opinions on the basis that I hotly (and I do mean hotly) opposed them they gave me the perfect opportunity to develop my argument, hone my debate skills, have my position challenged (which ensured it was a considered opinion rather than a snap judgment), vaccinated me against relying on hyperbole and gave me the ability to perceive others, including parents, as being as entitled to their opinions to the same extent that I was entitled to mine.
You are perfectly entitled to see that as a bad thing. However I couldn't disagree more.
I have no problem with disagreeing on issues with my children or with them disagreeing with me. I have a problem with coercion in either direction and vigorous discussion and disagreement is not coercive (as long as those involved are not in the habit of, say, withdrawing love or affection to punish disagreement).
ReplyDeleteIf I campaign against these changes and win I am not coercing anyone. I would not be preventing people having inspections if they want them. I would not be preventing them from providing an education they think is suitable for their child even if it's different to the choices I would make. On the other hand, people campaigning for the changes are being coercive towards those who do not want routine inspections will be prevented from providing the education they believe is suitable for their child.
I would obviously not prevent my child campaigning for the changes and they would not prevent me - that would be coercive (LOL) - but I would expect either party to make their views known to the other through discussion and debate and hope that we could find a solution that meets everyone's needs. If we couldn't I would hope (though obviously not enforce) that the one taking the coercive action would stop.
"I would obviously not prevent my child campaigning for the changes and they would not prevent me - that would be coercive (LOL)"
ReplyDeleteBingo.
That works both ways.
"I would obviously not prevent my child campaigning against the changes and they would not prevent me - that would be coercive (LOL)"
Based on the indisputable logic of the above it seems to me that you are saying that coercion is an acceptable tool to fight......coercion.
(Coercion is an acceptable strategy to use on Simon cos the HE regs are so coercive)
I disagree with that position.
I think if a principle is held dear the very first person you insist on applying it in a consistent and even handed fashion..... is yourself.
Otherwise it looks less like a principle and more like a means to end in terms of controlling other people, very much in the vein of " do as I say not do as I do".
"Based on the indisputable logic of the above it seems to me that you are saying that coercion is an acceptable tool to fight......coercion.
ReplyDelete(Coercion is an acceptable strategy to use on Simon cos the HE regs are so coercive)"
Exactly how am I coercing Simon? Am I preventing him campaigning against the new law, possibly with a court order? Have I threatened him physically? Have I threatened to withdraw love or affection if he continues? I thought we were debating the issue as you and I both seem to think is healthy within families so presumably it's OK here too? Am I missing your point completely?
""I would obviously not prevent my child campaigning for the changes and they would not prevent me - that would be coercive (LOL)"
ReplyDeleteBased on the indisputable logic of the above it seems to me that you are saying that coercion is an acceptable tool to fight......coercion."
Still trying to get my head around this. I said I would discuss the issues with my child and am perfectly happy for them to have different views to me. I then said that I would not stop them campaigning against an issue because stopping them would be coercive. I would not even coerce them them if the issue they were campaigning for would be coercive to me or others. Where am I saying that it is OK to use coercion to fight coercion?
The only times when I think coercion is acceptable is when it is done to prevent unlawful harmful physical or mental coercion of others. It is OK to coercively restrain someone who is punching someone else to the ground, for instance, or to coercively preventing a child from attending school (ha ha - free time off school without being chased for truancy) if they are verbally bullying another child and that child is distressed by the bullying. But I don't think either of these would count as 'fighting' in the sense you use? Coercion by the state is more difficult and I suppose our only recourse then would be the courts.
"Am I missing your point completely?"
ReplyDeleteI think it is more a case of cross purposes.
You said this
"I would obviously not prevent my child campaigning for the changes and they would not prevent me (campaigning against changes)- that would be coercive (LOL)"
However were Simon to say this
""I would obviously not prevent my child campaigning against the changes and they would not prevent me (campaigning for changes) - that would be coercive (LOL)"
Would you accept it as an equally valid statement ?
Or
Would you condone an attempt to coerce by Simon's daughter to get her father to drop his campaign in the name of "the greater good" ?
As per an act of coercion attempted by yourself. I didn't touch on that in my post, but since you ask...
You tried to take a shot at his emotions or insecurities as a parent (see note) in order to influence his behavior (campaigning) .
NOTE
It is well known that parents are not exactly immune to guilt and insecurity when it comes to their children.
"It also appears that your daughter's view on this bill does not to matter to you . I find that disturbing too"
"what is worrying is that you take NO notice of your daughters view over the Badman ideas!"
By expressing deep concern (disturbed/worried) in the context of his father/daughter relationship the inference is that Simon is not behaving as a good dad should.
By indicating he is failing to be a good father (by supporting the proposals), there is an attempt to create guilt.
By giving him reason to believe that he is not perceived by others as a good father, there is an attempt to create insecurity.
Even if subconscious, it is still manipulative.
Is a manipulative approach not coercive ?
Sarah wrote,
ReplyDelete"You tried to take a shot at his emotions or insecurities as a parent (see note) in order to influence his behavior (campaigning) .
NOTE
It is well known that parents are not exactly immune to guilt and insecurity when it comes to their children.
"It also appears that your daughter's view on this bill does not to matter to you . I find that disturbing too"
"what is worrying is that you take NO notice of your daughters view over the Badman ideas!""
Ahhh, maybe I should consider a pseudonym, at least for the duration of a thread. This was not my post, sorry for the confusion caused by anonymous posting! I think that poster made just one post ("I am new here." followed by "I am off to find a useful home education site now."). The first lines of my posts are as follows (in case you are interested in continuing):
- There is a difference between disagreeing with a family
- A closer comparison would be if your daughter ran a grocery
- So there's no chance that she will want to home educate her
- I have no problem with disagreeing on issues with my
- Exactly how am I coercing Simon? Am I preventing him (my first line after quoted text)
Sarah wrote,
"Even if subconscious, it is still manipulative.
Is a manipulative approach not coercive ?"
Yes, it would be. As I pointed out, withdrawing love or affection is an especially strong coercive power we have over our children (and they over us I suppose) and there are obvious similarities, the use of emotion in order to control. This can also be seen in the way the government manipulates and uses the deaths of children at the hands of their parents to justify measures when (in my view) those measures would have made no difference and could even make similar deaths more likely (as scarse resources are drawn away to monitor lots of healthy families). 'But it's for the children!' is a powerfully emotive pressure to use on people against the legislation. I do try to avoid this and hope I have managed in this thread but I fear it is endemic in much debate in this country so I can imagine that I could slip into it without recognising it. The other side of the coin is that this attempt can leave you frozen and unable to decide if a comment or query is acceptable.
Sarah wrote,
"""I would obviously not prevent my child campaigning against the changes and they would not prevent me (campaigning for changes) - that would be coercive (LOL)"
Would you accept it as an equally valid statement ?"
Yes. However, I would hope that discussion and debate around the issue and why one is for or against it would lead to a solution that leaves both people happy. Personally, if in a similar situation, I would hope that if we could not find that solution, the person who had least to lose would back down. Yes, they would effectively be being coerced in the sense that they are enacting one theory whilst a rival theory is still their preferred choice, but not in the sense that someone has somehow 'forced' them to make that choice (and forcing obviously includes emotional blackmail). I would hope we would chose the solution that results in the least amount of coercion in either direction, but obviously I'm human and make mistakes and misjudgements.
"Yes. However, I would hope that discussion and debate around the issue and why one is for or against it would lead to a solution that leaves both people happy."
ReplyDeleteBTW, this may not even be an issue for Simon. His daughter may be against the legislation but not feel strongly enough to be bothered by her father's support of it. In which case, obviously, there is no need to try and reach a common solution. Do you think family members should be concerned about finding solutions if one of them feels very strongly that another members actions are coercive of them? If Simone did feel strongly enough about the issue to be distressed by the idea of the legislation going through, feeling that the legislation would potentially be coercive to her in future, for instance, do you think Simon should or should not consider changing his actions? How far would you take the idea of vigorous debate within a family?