Saturday 26 June 2010

More about autonomous learning.

One of the difficulties I tend to have when discussing autonomous education is that there are so many different strands. When I tackle the ideas expressed by authors such as Paul Goodman or Ivan Illich, somebody is sure to pounce and claim that this is not authentic autonomous education. The same has happened with whichever writer or parent whose ideas on the subject I have tried to discuss. Somebody always comes along and tells me that these are the wrong ideas and that I should only pay attention to this person or that's views about it. Every autonomous educator seems to believe that she alone follows and understands the purest form of this philosophy. This of course is exactly what happened yesterday when I quoted Maire Stafford. Somebody posted a comment asking, ' Why are you discussing an individual home educator as though they are autonomous education?'
Never the less, I shall stick with what Stafford has said about this subject on her blog, as it ties in with much of what many other people have said about autonomous education. By looking at what an autonomously home educating parent says, I should also be safe from the accusation of setting up straw men.

Here is another quotation, which sums up what many parents have said about autonomous education:

For autonomous educators such coercive education is not only wrong, it is far less effective because over a childhood the autodidactic child will, as a side effect of following their own interests, cover everything they will need to become a well functioning citizen in the society to which they belong.

Very interesting idea. Of course a child may cover everything needed to become a well functioning citizen, purely as a by product of following her own interests. There is no reason though why this should be so; to claim that they will necessarily do so does not seem to me a logical conclusion. In short, this statement is no more than bare assertion which we are invited to take on trust. After all, many children at school fail wholly to cover everything they need to become well functioning citizens. What grounds do we have for supposing that the case will be better for those educated at home? Surely a good deal must depend upon the parents. If the home educating parent is lazy, cruel, selfish and dishonest; then a lot of this is likely to rub off on the child. This will then make the child less likely to become a well functioning citizen. If on the other hand the child next door goes to school and in addition has parents who are kind, industrious, honest and altruistic, then this child will be more likely than others to grow into a well functioning citizen.

I suppose a good deal depends too upon what the author means by the expression 'well functioning citizen'. Perhaps she means somebody who is able to take part in civic life, understands the nature of government, is politically aware enough to be able to exercise his franchise sensibly, wishes perhaps to become a local councillor or magistrate? Again, why should we think that an autonomously educated person who has not been to school is more likely to turn into this sort of individual than one who has attended a good school and has conscientious parents who make an effort to teach her about the duties and responsibilities of citizenship? In other words, I can't see why the child following her own interests is more likely to become a well functioning citizen than one who is instructed systematically.


those lucky enough to have been enabled to learn in this way from the start have not only had the opportunity to thoroughly explore their interests, but have been living in the real world and experiencing the consequences of their choices all their lives.

All children and adults live in the real world; there is no other. Children at school experience the consequences of their choices no less than an autonomously educated child at home. More so, probably. Like most parents, I tried to protect my child from the bad consequences of her decisions as far as possible. This is what parents do, because they are especially fond of their children. Teachers care less about the children they teach, because these are not their children. They are accordingly more likely to allow the bad consequences to befall the child than a parent would be. So I find it more likely that children at school would experience the consequences of their choices than those in the constant company of a loving parent.

Much of the stuff written about this type of education depends more upon faith than evidence. That's fine, after all I go to church every week; I must have some history of taking things on faith! As long as this system of education is accepted as just that, a belief system which needs to be taken on trust, then I have no problem at all with it. It is just one more offbeat lifestyle chosen by a number of people. It is when it is guyed up as a viable alternative to conventional education that my hackles begin to rise and I feel the need to examine it perhaps a little more harshly.

19 comments:

  1. You don't really need to look at what any one person says about AE. The method is in the name.

    Autonomous - having the right or power of self-government, undertaken or carried on without outside control.

    Education - the action or process of being educated, the knowledge and development resulting from an educational process.

    Why so much attention given to a blog article, basically an on-line journal of random thoughts in most cases? It's hardly an academic theses to be torn apart and criticized as though it were something developed after hours of though, draft copies, re-writes, etc.

    However, I find it difficult to believe that a child, brought up in our society within a well resourced home with access to libraries, museums, workshops, HE groups, etc, would fail to want to learn the basic requirements to be a fully functioning citizen. Can you really envisage someone actively choosing not to become literate and numerate in our society despite plenty of opportunities to learn, for instance?

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  2. "Much of the stuff written about this type of education depends more upon faith than evidence. "

    In your experience, do you learn something more thoroughly and remember it better if you choose to learn it and enjoy the topic or when someone else says it's a good idea and you must learn it even though you hate it?

    Whichever is true for you, is this belief, 'faith' or is it a belief based on practical life experience?

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  3. Well, autonomy is working for my family, I don't need to have faith in it, because I can see that it's working.

    I wonder if you have extra faith, faith in your idea that all children should be told to learn what adults (that you agree with) tell them too.

    I've comented alot on the last post, if you really do want to understand autonomy - it seems to me like you only want to disprove it - I hope you found my posts helpful.

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  4. "One of the difficulties I tend to have when discussing autonomous education is that there are so many different strands."

    That's the thing, isn't it? Where to start. School is school; something that isn't school could be a million different things.

    Nature celebrates diversity. It's only schoolists who have this notion that education has to occur in a specific form and context and that children should be expected to develop in regular and easily measurable graduations. I'm sure some might say that schoolism is an unnatural mindset altogether.

    In America recently there was a huge furore over "unschooling", as they call it there, after it was featured on national TV, with all sorts of online debates going on. One particular reality emerged time and time again:

    People who defend "unschooling" are most often people who are familiar with both school culture and "unschooling" and who know from experience which they prefer (is that faith or evidence or a bit of both?). People who are critical of "unschooling" are most often people who have are familiar only with the practice of schooling and who have never considered how it relates to learning as a whole (learning of course being the universal practice of which schooling is merely a formalised part). So allowing children to learn naturally rather than through contrivance and imposition would undoubtedly come across as a rather gobsmacking proposal to such people. In the case of the American fracas, ignorance of the subject matter didn't stop schoolists from making many inaccurate and often bizarre observations anyway on what they imagined "unschooling" to be. Children spending their days dropping stones into puddles was my favourite.

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  5. Hmm... I think that was meant to be "People who are critical of "unschooling" are most often people who are familiar with only the practice of schooling ..."

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  6. "In your experience, do you learn something more thoroughly and remember it better if you choose to learn it and enjoy the topic or when someone else says it's a good idea and you must learn it even though you hate it? "

    Interesting point. Sometimes there are things that we need to know; for work, to function in society and so on. If these things are boring, we might not stick at them for long enough to learn them. there is a tendency to give up is we are not really interested. It is that 'stickability' is you like which coercive education can promote. Unfortunately, as we go though life there are bound to be things which we must learn, whether we wish to or not.

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  7. "People who defend "unschooling" are most often people who are familiar with both school culture and "unschooling" and who know from experience which they prefer "

    Yes, that's a good point. Many teachers and parents who have not been involved with home education only know the 'school' model of education. You are quite right, the majority of those who are home educating know both and have indeed decided which they prefer! This certainly puts them in a stronger position when discussing the rival merits of school based versus home education.

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  8. "Sometimes there are things that we need to know; for work, to function in society and so on. If these things are boring, we might not stick at them for long enough to learn them."

    So you don't think a need to know something in order to function in society is enough incentive for someone to learn something of their own free will? Really? Maybe we have just been lucky with out children but, unless a child is damaged by their life experiences or disabled in some way, I find this difficult to believe. Can you really imagine a child growing up in a well resourced with helpful parents choosing not to become literate and numerate? What specifically do you think a child might choose not to learn that would stop them functioning out in the world?

    "there is a tendency to give up is we are not really interested. It is that 'stickability' is you like which coercive education can promote."

    In my experience, coercive education promotes doing as little as necessary to avoid punishment and usually forgetting it as soon as someone is not there requiring you to know it.

    So can I assume you agree that freely chosen learning is better? Your only argument is that people may not choose to learn something 'necessary' unless they are forced to?

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  9. Simon wrote,
    "It is a core assumption of autonomous education that children will acquire the skills they need to take advantage of their environment and pursue their own aspirations.

    Yes, it is an assumption and as such completely worthless."

    So is it your core assumption that healthy, well adjusted children in well resourced, stimulating environments with helpful, concerned and loving parents will choose not to become literate and numerate? This seems a worthless assumption and not born out by my experience of children or people.

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  10. Sorry, the last comment is on the wrong thread.

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  11. " Can you really imagine a child growing up in a well resourced with helpful parents choosing not to become literate and numerate?"

    I can easily imagine a child or young person who was reluctant to tackle a concept like compound interest unless actively encouraged to do so. This will have a bad consequence if she applies for a loan in later life. Many people do not even know what APR stands for. (In a recent survey, many guessed that it stood for April!) This is why we need to be sure to teach such things.

    "doing as little as necessary to avoid punishment"

    I agree completely; punishment is a lousy way of teaching. But really, in this day and age who advocates such a method of teaching? And I am the one who is often accused of setting up straw men.....

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  12. Bob Collier said;

    "Children spending their days dropping stones into puddles was my favourite."

    Yes, people do indeed have some very strange ideas about what home education entails. Mind you, some home educators also have a very peculiar view of what conventional education involves. For instance;

    "In my experience, coercive education promotes doing as little as necessary to avoid punishment"

    It is many years since I have met any teacher or parent who punished a child for not learning what was being taught. It conjures up a wonderful image.

    "What are seven eights?"
    " I don't know."
    "What, you little bastard, you don't know your eight times table? Take that!"

    So you see that it is not only schoolers who have odd ideas about home education; it can happen the other way as well!

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  13. "
    "doing as little as necessary to avoid punishment"

    I agree completely; punishment is a lousy way of teaching. But really, in this day and age who advocates such a method of teaching?"

    'Punishment' such as disappointing or disapproval from a parent when you refuse to learn something they want to teach you, rather than physical or verbal chastisement. Possibly detention in school but I doubt you would get that for not learning something. You would maybe fail a test and the 'punishment' would be the disapproval and disappointment of teachers or parents. Obviously more effective as a punishment for some children than others.

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  14. "I can easily imagine a child or young person who was reluctant to tackle a concept like compound interest unless actively encouraged to do so. This will have a bad consequence if she applies for a loan in later life."

    Yes, something I managed to avoid learning despite 13 years of structured education and a good 'O' level in maths. However, I soon picked up the idea when I wanted to borrow money and this was before the internet made such information so much easier to find. Amazing what intrinsic motivation can achieve - that and fear of spending more money than necessary! We cannot know everything there is to know and will be useful in our future lives but we can know how to find out when we need to. Giving our children the tools, confidence and encouraging natural curiosity seem better ways to achieve this than feeding them parcels of knowledge (though I'm sure your daughter learnt these skills to).

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  15. Why are you discussing a blog article in a blog article? Isn't it more usual to discuss the article in the articles comment section? Then you can ask the writer to clarify anything you don't understand or wish to query.

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  16. "Of course it is always worth bearing in mind that this is my blog and I tend to post about what I wish."

    Touchy! I didn't say you couldn't discuss it here, just suggested it might make more sense to ask the original author what she meant. Any chance of a link to the Irish Human Rights site?

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  17. "Of course it is always worth bearing in mind that this is my blog and I tend to post about what I wish."

    Touchy! I didn't say you couldn't discuss it here, just suggested it might make more sense to ask the original author what she meant. Any chance of a link to the piece on the Irish Human Rights site?

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  18. No worries, found the article.

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  19. "In my experience, coercive education promotes doing as little as necessary to avoid punishment"

    Yes, in mine too. Homework is dashed off as quickly as possible, and copied, or even better printed out from the internet without even being read, to avoid getting a detention. My autonomously schooled child does it all the time.

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