Tuesday 23 November 2010

Guilt by association

The idea of guilt by association used to be very popular at one time, particularly in the USA during the McCarthy Era. It has unfortunately fallen out of favour in recent years, which was why I was so pleased to see Mike Fortune-Wood, owner of the HE-UK list revive this fine old tradition the day before yesterday.

As many readers will be aware, I was until last summer a member of the HE-UK Internet list. Following the publication of a couple of articles of mine on the subject of home education in the Independent and Times Education Supplement, I was chucked off ignominiously. Cest la vie! I know enough people who are still members of this list, both parents and local authority employees, that it didn't really matter. People have forwarded me posts of interest and at various times I have been sent all the posts at the end of each day. I have not needed to belong to the list myself, because I hardly think that most of the members would welcome my views an so have not found it necessary to post! However, on Sunday, I was sent a couple of posts which mentioned me by name. The aim of these was to smear me by suggesting that I had sent myself an email message with Alison Sauer's accounts as an attachment. (Yes, I know it sounds completely mad, but you know what autonomous home educators are like). Here is what was said:

'I wouldn't be surprised if Webb made the whole thing up, like he invented that family he spoke about in Hackney on Bragg a while ago.
He is particularly prejudiced against people who are not obviously middle class and educated to his standards'

I simply had to respond to this. I am about as middle class as the Artful Dodger! This is such a delightful piece of snobbery; that the writer assumes that I cannot be working class because I use standard English and correct punctuation. It speaks volumes about the author herself and her own assumptions about matters of language and class. I asked a few people if they would post a response for me via their own membership of the list, but all laughingly declined. The general feeling was that anybody seen to be a friend of mine would also be chucked off HE-UK. It was a conundrum, until I remembered a family with whom I have had quite a few dealings over in Ilford. I spend quite a bit of time there, because that is where my own family live. Ms Amin is the mother of a twelve year-old boy whom she de-registered from school last year. They live opposite my brother and so I have got to know them and helped out with advice. She joined a few lists, but did not think much of HE-UK. Actually, she recognised my name when we met and asked me how I could bear to have such things said about me that she had read on the lists!

To cut a long story short, I emailed her and she agreed to send my response to the post on her account. I thought that I had made it clear that she should provide a covering explanation, but in the event she did not. Mike Fortune-Wood's reaction was very swift. He threw her off the list; presumably for consorting with the enemy. I wonder that he did not email her first and ask what the idea was and find out a little more about it, but so great is the loathing which he evidently feels for me and anybody who speaks to me, he did not do so.

Ms Amin has never passed anything to me herself from the list. She is what you might call a highly structured home educator and cannot understand half of what is posted on HE-UK. This is less because she speaks at home a community language other than English, but because she is passionately dedicated to her child's education and finds the ideas expressed in the HE-UK list incomprehensible. One can sympathise! For this reason, I gather that she is not all that upset to be chucked of this particular Internet list.

Those whom I first asked to post a message on my behalf have been chuckling at all this and congratulating themselves on a narrow escape. There is something rather awful, running a list where a particular individual can be maligned at will without any chance of responding to the foolish and wrong headed things about him which are being said. Still, there is no harm done really. I am sure that Mike Fortune-Wood will not miss Ms Amin, who was as far as I can gather one of the only Muslims on his list. I suspect that the next time though that I try to get somebody to post on my behalf, it will be considerably harder!

15 comments:

  1. Well my feeling on the matter is that anyone who is talked about has the right to put their own point of view across. I cant say I agree with you all that often but you should be able to say your piece too.
    I feel sorry for Mrs Amin for getting caught in the middle though and I can understand the reluctance of others to get involved.

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  2. He had been thrown off the list and it is against list rules to forward messages without the authors permission. Should we only ever be able to speak about people who are in the public view if they can read and respond to it themselves? Where does that leave us with regard to discussing politicians, LA employees, political commentators, etc?

    Was the accusation that you were 'middle class' really that important that you felt you just had to rush in to defend your honour? To the extent that you trawled various acquaintances in order to find someone willing to post your messages, settling finally on someone whose English may not be good enough for her to appreciate quite what she was doing?

    You know what say about eavesdroppers and hearing good of themselves.

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  3. 'it is against list rules to forward messages without the authors permission.'

    If the users of this list adhered to this rule, then I would not need to keep an eye on them. The day after my article in the Independent was published, the day that Mike Fortune-Wood threw me off the list, he posted a comment on the Independent website, under the name of Marske123, his livejournal user-name. In it, he quoted from one of my posts to the HE-UK list. Ali Edgley then wrote to the editor of the Times Educational Supplement, again quoting from my posts. Before the select committee hearing last October, Wendy Crickard appealed on the HE-UK list for old posts of mine there which she could show to Linda Waltho MP. Nobody on the list objected and several suggested posts that could be forwarded to other people.

    The behaviour of those on the HE-UK list, including the list owner, suggests strongly that none of them care at all about forwarding messages without the author's permission. Because of the way that messages which I posted there were being used to try and attack me, I felt quite justified in making sure that I knew what these characters were up to. Posts of mine from this list have appeared all over the place. The only conclusion I can draw is that messages posted on this list are regarded by the members as public property rather than private communications. Had my posts not been used in this way, I would have been quite happy not to have any more to do with the HE-UK list. I must prptect my own interests though and cannot allow a bunch of people to engage in a campaign of this sort without at the very least watching what mischief they are getting up to!

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  4. So accusing you of being middle class is a campaign against you that justifies your leaping in to defend yourself? You're using an over-reaction to your articles from over a year ago (at the height of the Badman upset when emotions were running high already) to justify eavesdropping for over a year? You certainly know how to hold a grudge.

    P.S. two wrongs do not a right make.

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  5. Simon that post about you was not sent to the list. It was sent privately to one member, then that member replied to the person without snipping out her email and sent it to the list by mistake. Just thought you might like to know that it wasn't intentionally sent to a public list.

    as for this:

    "(Yes, I know it sounds completely mad, but you know what autonomous home educators are like)",

    charming I'm sure! And I thought you such a gent!

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  6. Simon is a proven liar and he doesnt mind admitting it.
    So why take any notice of anything he says?
    It has no credibility.


    Darren

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  7. 'You certainly know how to hold a grudge.'

    Well, I don't know about holding a grudge, but if I had not made sure that I was kept informed about what was happening on the HE-UK list, then I would not have known that over a year later, my name was still being bandied around!

    As I say, if the people on this list had not gone wild and started spreading my posts all over the place, I would have been quite happy to have no more to do with it.

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  8. '"(Yes, I know it sounds completely mad, but you know what autonomous home educators are like)",

    charming I'm sure! And I thought you such a gent!'

    Yes, that's a fair point. I should have said, 'some autonomous home educators'.

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  9. 'Simon is a proven liar and he doesnt mind admitting it.
    So why take any notice of anything he says?
    It has no credibility.'

    Sorry Darren, is this another of your famous jokes or am I meant to take what you say literally on this occasion? It gets a bit confusing!

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  10. Simon
    I have not been joking since I asked you to apologise for misreprenting me and telling untruths about things I have done.
    I accused you of lying and this is your response.

    'To speak candidly, I would infinitely prefer to be either a liar or a muddle headed buffoon than the sort of person prone to making an illicit concordance of singular and plural pronouns; but that is a purely personal perspective.'

    Not very Christian eh?

    You have done nothing to refute my claims, which is not surprising, because they are true.

    Which makes me wonder, if you are prone to
    lying, why would anybody take any notice of anything yu say here, it has no credibility.

    I used to read your blog with interest and take notice of what you said, but with no credibility that has changed.

    Yours with sadness

    Darren

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  11. "Yes, that's a fair point. I should have said, 'some autonomous home educators'"

    You seem a bit obsessed by autonomous educators. Considering they are in the minority you seem to see them everywhere! Everyone you disagree with seems automatically to qualify as and autonomous educator.

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  12. Oh, you're such a kidder Derren! I think everybody knows by now when you are just joshing and I really am not likely to take offence again. Liar with no credibility, indeed! You really are a hoot. Mind you, this blog is really about home education and if you should ever feel like saying anything about that subject, you are very welcome.

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  13. Simon

    This blog is about home education, that is true. There is however no relevance to this blog if you have no credibility, and you have no credibility if you are a proven liar who doesnt mind being called such.
    Your feeble attempt to avoid answeriing this charge by pretending (lying?) that I am joking is wearing very thin.
    It reminds me a little of the famous Paxman versus Howard Newsnight interview when Howard was Home Sec.
    He thought he had a neat way to avoid the question but when faced with the prospect of repeating it several times he looked an idiot.

    All you had to do was say 'yes, sorry, I did accuse you of not signing off with your real name, when in fact you did and I am sorry that my selective quoting did misrepresent you. I didnt think it was a big deal at the time but I do recognised that it upset you and for that I apologise'
    Now that wouldnt be too difficult would it?

    But you have squirmed and lied and deflected and used weak and feeble arguments instead. I expected better to be honest.


    Darren

    PS - Dont give me any guff about spelling and apostrophes, I dont proof read this stuff and I dont use apostrophes when typing out something quickly like this.

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  14. 'if you are a proven liar who doesnt mind being called such.'

    Two errors of fact in a dozen words! Never mind the apostrophes, I think this is enough in itself to cast more than a little doubt upon the other assertions being made here. Unless the inclusion of the word 'if' is intended to indicate that this is no more than an hypothesis that I am expected to confirm or deny.

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  15. Simon

    You said

    'if you are a proven liar who doesnt mind being called such.'

    Two errors of fact in a dozen words!'

    I accused you of lying and this is your response.

    'To speak candidly, I would infinitely prefer to be either a liar or a muddle headed buffoon than the sort of person prone to making an illicit concordance of singular and plural pronouns; but that is a purely personal perspective.'

    I think that any reasonalbe person would interpret this as you not minding being called a liar. So saying that you dont mind being called a liar is not an error of fact.

    You have also consistently pretended or lied about the fact that your false statement about me posting anonymously was intended as a joke.
    Everyone can see that this is not true and you have lied consistently about it.
    You also asserted that sarcastic coments made about me were in fact meant as praise. I think any reasonable person would see that this ws also a lie.
    It reminds me of a book I read as a child called 'The fib that got bigger'.

    I dont like the fact that you have misrepresented me, I dont like the fact that you made false claims about me and my character.

    I am asking you to apologise for doing that.

    You have admitted that I did post under my name and not anonomously as you claimed in your blog - why not just say sorry for doing that.
    Why is that so difficult for you?

    Two words will do

    'Sorry Darren'


    Darren

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