I have remarked before that some home educating parents seem to feel that if all the normal rules are not bent in their favour, then this amounts to wicked discrimination against them! The latest example of this unfortunate mindset, encouraged I am afraid to say by some of the lists and forums, is to be found on the HE-UK list. A mother there, whose son will be sixteen in a few months, is upset because a local college will not admit her son. This is because he has no GCSEs.
The first thing which occurs to one here is to ask why the mother did not find this out years ago and make provision accordingly. Instead, she has a grudge about the business because the college won't take her word for it that her child is bright and self-motivated. Why on earth should they? Parents are the worst possible people to give references for their own children! I am sure that we all know slow witted children whose parents think they are little geniuses. Most of us also know children who are rough bullies, although their parents believe them to be boisterous and forthright. I am the last person in the world to whom anybody should apply if they wish for an objective description of my daughter. This is very right and proper; of course parents should think well of their children and believe them better than they actually are. This is part of human nature. It is also why colleges prefer to have references from teachers and see a bunch of GCSEs, rather than depend upon what Mum says.
A home educating parent of my acquaintance, not on any of the lists, was really pissed off recently when her son was refused a place at Edinburgh University. He has a glittering array of IGCSEs and AS levels, but wished to study history. Anybody doing a Humanity at Edinburgh is required to have a GCSE in a language. There are no exceptions to this rule. Being psychologically healthy, the mother concerned was pissed off not at Edinburgh University, but at herself for not thinking of this years ago and making sure that her son took an IGCSE in a language. She does not expect Edinburgh University to change their admissions criteria for her son.
Those giving advice on the home education lists and forums could do worse than adopt a similar attitude. It does the reputation of home education no good at all if parents are constantly trying to have the rules changed because they have been unable or unwilling to get their kids through the same examinations as everybody else. Instead of complaining about the admissions criteria, whether for an FE College or Russell Group university, parents might do worse than find out all about them years in advance and then make sure that their children are on a level playing field with everybody else. Home educating parents are often seen by education professionals as being a bit of a nuisance and every time somebody plays silly beggars like this, attempting to get her son onto a course for which he is not qualified, it simply reinforces that prejudice. It would be a better advertisement for home education if teenagers were to be turning up at FE colleges with more and better qualifications than the children from the maintained schools. If that happened for a few years, then perhaps it would help home education shake off this image of being something which is usually undertaken by cranks, misfits and troublemakers. This generally is what teachers and lecturers expect when they ecounter a home educating family and it would be nice to see more families which did not conform to this stereotype. This would, in the long run, benefit all home educators.
Assuming you're talking about the same post, you missed the bit where she said he was going to be taking IGCSEs in the summer.
ReplyDeleteMost of the schoolchildren applying will likely be taking their exams this summer, so from the statements made, there is no request for special treatment. (I will put in the caveat that nowhere is there mention of which subjects, so that might make a difference.)
It's interesting to see that other colleges are keen to have home educated children apply because they recognise that in general, they are self-motivated and adaptable. I guess her local one, or at least that particular employee, has yet to experience this and so is playing safe.
'Assuming you're talking about the same post, you missed the bit where she said he was going to be taking IGCSEs in the summer.'
ReplyDeleteI didn't miss this. The college require five GCSEs.
'It's interesting to see that other colleges are keen to have home educated children apply because they recognise that in general, they are self-motivated and adaptable.'
Can we have the names of these colleges? I would be interested to look into this.
Simon, these lists you are quoting from are open to members only, there are agreements not to cross post without permission.
ReplyDeleteI realise it's the internet and people should be careful but you are not entitled to use conversations from private lists on your blog which it open to all and searchable on Google.
Surely you can find material that isn't inspired by other people's conversations.
Elizabeth
These are matters of general concern to home educating parents, Elizabeth. I have not used the woman's name, nor given any information which would enable anybody to identify even the county in which she lives. Things like this affect many home educating parents and I think are worth discussing.
ReplyDelete"Can we have the names of these colleges? I would be interested to look into this. "
ReplyDeleteThe one that springs most immediately to mind is Doncaster.
Is there (and if so, should there be) a difference between IGCSEs and GCSEs from employers and academic institutions? They are nominally two different ways of achieving the same standard.
'Is there (and if so, should there be) a difference between IGCSEs and GCSEs from employers and academic institutions? They are nominally two different ways of achieving the same standard'
ReplyDeleteIGCSEs are generally looked upon more favourably by both colleges and universities, even though they are nominally equivalent.
'Can we have the names of these colleges? I would be interested to look into this. "
ReplyDeleteThe one that springs most immediately to mind is Doncaster'
Many colleges will allow somebody to get in with a portfolio or via an audition for art and music. It is a different story when it comes to A levels. the person whose story I outline above wnats her son to study A levels and this is why the college are being tough. they want to make sure that the boy isd able to copw with the course. it is a black mark against them if somebody drops out of a course halfway through, quite apart from any other consideration.
The point which I am making here and I am not sure if Elizabeth for one sees this, is that stuff like this has a negative effect upon all home educating families. Every time that a parent cuts up rough because a college requires certain qualifications to get on a course, it just reinforces all the stereotypes about home educators and their children. It makes it that much more difficult for the next home educated child who applies to college, because colleges come to expect certain characteristics in home edcuated children and their parents. If home educated children regularly applied to colleges with the right qualifications, it would help to dispel the myth of the awkward family who always need special treatment. This would be a good thing. In other words, incidents like this are of concern to all home educating parents, because they shape how home educators are thought of generally by colleges and universities.
ReplyDeleteNew College, Swindon (a higher education college) has had several good experiences with EHE young people over the last 5 or 6 years and so they are happy to take them with no qualifications. In general, they get admitted to do five GCSEs in a year (alongside those from schools resitting) and can then do further GCSEs or start on A levels. One young person started on an AS level immediately (alongside GCSEs) because he attended an evening class in which he had extensive relevant experience from a family business and was invited to sign up for the AS by the lecturer.
ReplyDeleteI tend to agree with Simon that it is our job to make sure that we meet the requirements of the institutions our DC want to enter - even if we do it differently, for example, by having OU points rather than GCSEs and A levels. My DS does not yet know what he wants to do but is adding a language and an OU humanity this year to his existing maths and science, in order to keep his options as open as possible.
"Anybody doing a Humanity at Edinburgh is required to have a GCSE in a language. There are no exceptions to this rule. Being psychologically healthy, the mother concerned was pissed off not at Edinburgh University, but at herself for not thinking of this years ago and making sure that her son took an IGCSE in a language."
ReplyDeleteWhich pre-supposes that she would have known years ago that her son wanted to study History at Edinburgh. If she did, then she is stupid, but unless you are suggesting that it's possible to take a set group of IGCSEs and A levels that would gain entry to any HE course in the UK, there will always be people who are caught out with the wrong qualifications for the course they want to apply for. Many people decide quite late on the HE course they want to apply for or change their mind. They then set about getting the additional qualifications required or choose to study the same course at university they are qualified to enter. This mother is in exactly the same situation as a parent of a school child who didn't know where they wanted to go at 18 until they were 16 or 17.
'Which pre-supposes that she would have known years ago that her son wanted to study History at Edinburgh. If she did, then she is stupid, but unless you are suggesting that it's possible to take a set group of IGCSEs and A levels that would gain entry to any HE course in the UK, there will always be people who are caught out with the wrong qualifications for the course they want to apply for'
ReplyDeleteInteresting point. I think that it would be possible to scout around now if you had a child of fourteen and get a pretty good idea of what GCSEs and A levels would be useful. Mathematics at A level, rather than General Studies; French at GCSE, rather than Media Studies. I certainly did this four years ago and it has saved a lot of irritation now for my daughter. You can't be sure of getting a set of qualifications which will suit all universities or colleges, but you can be pretty sure that A levels in mathematics and history will get you further than Leisure and Tourism. It is also a safe bet that universities will be more impressed by a modern language at GCSE than they will by business studies or catering.
Okay - as usual (if we are all talking about the same post).. we don't actually have enough information to be sure if the college is being "reasonable" or not. If the students concerned is in fact going to be correctly qualified by the start of the course (ie with the 5 required IGCSEs/GCSES) then the college are just being petty if they are fussing about trivialities now of not having predicted grades/mock marks etc. If the students is going to do some sort of arts type subjects (eg art A level or media type stuff) then again, a reasonable college would perhaps be more flexible.
ReplyDeleteHowever, leaving this case aside, how flexible should the system be for any student who wants to do an academic subject but who has no qualifications? Obviously special consideration is given to circumstances like some one who didn't take an exam because of personal crisis (such as bereavement), but of course most children go to school and so there is someone to vouch for previous performance. If however someone applies who either hasn't had their maths skills tested to GCSE level or who has done and does badly, should the college offer them a place to do A level maths? I am not at all sure they should, because one thing I am sure about is that the transistion from GCSE maths to A level is actually pretty hard anyway and it would be very rare for someone to get to the required standard in AS maths between mid September and early Jan if they were not already scoring highly at GCSE maths.
Now of course that doesn't rule out the student studying maths at A level via another route - finding a college with a GCSE year to attain the qualifications or taking an OU maths course for example. I am not at all sure though that allowing a student to get in by taking for example, a key skills or adult numeracy maths qualification is at all suitable for A level netry - I know this happens for some more vocational courses, but we, as a home ed group have just arranged for our non-GCSE students to take thse qualifications locally so that they have some piece of paper, but to regard these as at all GCSE equivalent is a bit of a joke.
"The point which I am making here and I am not sure if Elizabeth for one sees this, is that stuff like this has a negative effect upon all home educating families."
ReplyDeleteI do see that Simon, my children are younger so I didn't enter the debate on A levels as I'm not yet experienced.
I don't think that doors should open for HE kids just because they are HE kids. Why shouldn't they prove they have the relevant skills to get on the courses they wish to follow. The courses should consider whether they really are looking for relevant skills or simply making people jump though hoops. Needing a language to study History does sound like jumping though hoop tbh. A HE parent flagging this up on behalf of her child would simply be a consumer questioning the service, why wouldn't she do this, at the same time of course as kicking her self for not checking sooner.
HE kids are lucky in not needing to jump though unnecessary hoops as school children do with SATs etc. I agree that they and their parents should research the options and ensure that they jump though the correct hoops at the correct time to achieve their own planned goals.
You can't have it all ways, the freedom and extra options provided by HE do close some doors that would be open if one choose the conventional middle class schooling options.
My children will do A levels and University if they are particularly driven to do them.
I went to University because my education was set up to send me there, there really wasn't much option that was the route my parents and teachers put me on digging my way out of that track would have taken vision and ability that my education or parenting didn't enable me to develop at that time.
My children have many more routes available to them. It's my job to let them see those routes, help them have the skills required to go down the ones they choose.
The A level University route will be harder for them to get on to than if they went though the school system. It'll be an active choice though. A choice they will only make if they decide against the many other routes they might take to finding a way to earn a living and enjoy adult life.
The benefits they will gain emotionally and intellectually by receiving their childhood education outside of school far outweight the extra hassle of gaining A levels and a Degree if that is what they really want to do, indeed the benefits will assist them in having the personal resources to achieve that goal.
The families I know with teenagers seem to manage to negotiate getting into college with charm grace and a bit of forward planning, I expect that their children provide great PR for the HE community.
The odd irritated mum looking for support on the lists is not representative of the successes of many families. Hey we're all likely to be that irritated parent seeking support from others from time to time.
Elizabeth
"The odd irritated mum looking for support on the lists is not representative of the successes of many families. Hey we're all likely to be that irritated parent seeking support from others from time to time."
ReplyDeleteGood comment, Elizabeth. It's also possible of course that this parent has presented a completely different face to college and only shares her irritation amongst friends as many people do. There is no reason, from what I've read, to assume that this family is in any way harming the reputation of home education with the college they have had contact with. Many people without suitable qualifications will enquire about college courses and the majority of them will have been to school.
Anonymous, you are quite right, I would have surmised that too but said too much already!
ReplyDeletePeople chatting about the challenges of HE on private lists are not considering that they are speaking in public. They are not expecting to have skewed interpretation of their conversation repeated on public blogs.
Elizabeth
Although to be fair on Simon (and to get away from the actual case in question)- many home educators don't seem to have always done their research properly when it comes to college entrance etc (at 16 that is- I actually think there is less confusion about uni entrance).
ReplyDeleteTh reason for that is that some home educators unwittingly mislead others - some colleges really are going to stick to the rules for things like A levels courses and won't make allowance for home ed. I think their rigidity is partly because they feel they are acting in the students best interests in making them do a lower course first and partly because nowadays so many alternative courses do exist - it is no longer A levels or nothing. Yet this can all come as a bit of a surprise if the research hasn't been done beforehand.
I'd list English, Maths, languages, sciences, history, geography, music, wood/metalwork and some art-related courses (practical arts, such as painting and ceramics) as the acceptable set for useful GCSEs. Technical drawing might be in there as well, I remember that as being the one I did miss (in the days when eight O-levels was the most you could normally do at school) and had to do a top-up at university.
ReplyDeleteI'd reserve judgement on the usefulness of the rest. I'm even unimpressed with what they call 'science' now, based on seeing some recent papers.