A couple of days ago, I posted a fairly long piece here about teaching science at home. Nobody commented all day, which prompted one person to ask in the evening, ‘is discussing actual education less popular than some other topics?’ Very perceptive! I have noticed that there is a great difference between parents who actually get on and educate their children and those who belong to organisations and Internet groups concerned with home education. I tended to associate with the first group; individuals who were passionately committed to their children’s education. Most of these did not really have time to spare for belonging to online ’communities’ of other home educators. They might sometimes have joined a list or forum to find something out, but it was not a lifestyle. I might also observe that these people, like me, regarded monitoring by the local authority as one of life’s minor irritations; something which they could cheerfully do without, but which was not really all that important.
Now you might easily suppose that most home educating parents were like this; primarily concerned with education and ensuring that their children learn at least enough to prepare them for adult life. You would be wrong. There is far more interest on the larger lists and forums in working out ingenious ways to frustrate attempts by the local authority to find out about the education being provided for children. In fact one of the people who worked on the guidelines for local authorities prepared by Alison Sauer is currently incensed at the very idea that a ’suitable education’ might be defined as one which prepares a child for adult life. What the purpose of a child’s education, other than this, could possibly be is something of a mystery to me. To give readers a flavour of the sort of discussions which occupy most of the time on the main home education lists, I might mention a debate which is currently taking place about the best way to make life difficult for local authority officers who are not insisting on visits, but are instead happy to accept written reports. The list owner put forward the idea of deluging them with all sorts of paperwork and seeing how inconvenient parents are able to make the whole process of sending in an annual report. He also made the facetious suggestion that a parent should send a pig’s heart to the officer requesting information about her child’s education. This might well raise a chuckle in north Wales, where the person proposing this lives. Working as I do in the inner London borough of Hackney, I found this apparently humorous notion stupendously offensive. Perhaps this is because there are so many Muslims and Jews working for the local authority, that even a joke about sending one of them a pig’s heart would be liable to result in disciplinary proceedings. As I say, things are probably a little different the further one gets from the capital.
It is perhaps this mindset, of people more interested in making their own and other people’s lives difficult, which explains the lack of interest in discussing education per se. When there are so many amusing schemes to be discussed for getting one over on local authority officers, why would one wish to waste time thinking about the boring idea of teaching science?
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'I might also observe that these people, like me, regarded monitoring by the local authority as one of life’s minor irritations; something which they could cheerfully do without, but which was not really all that important.'
ReplyDeleteInteresting. My children's education was my life for the 15 years in which I took personal responsibility for it. I was very serious about their academic study, along with everything else, like their happiness and character development. So, in that sense, although my kids' exam results were not quite as good as Simone's, I'd say I was 'like you'.
Initially, I regarded the LA visits as a minor irritation, but after a few years, I decided I wouldn't bother with them any more. I'd already proved that I knew what I was doing. Most of my friends in the HE community (we did lots of things with other HE families who had the same approach to education) seemed to get to the same point eventually or had never had visits as they were 'unknown'.
After Badman, however, everything changed. These hardworking friends, whose kids went on to do brilliantly at IGCSE and are now in 6th Forms and colleges heading towards Russel Group unis, got involved in the campaign to resist tightening controls over HE.
This is an interesting phenomenon, the politicisation of a large group of HE families who, up to a certain point, weren't really bothered about the LA or government attitudes to HE etc and who may even have let compulsory reguistration sneak in without too much complaint.
Lots of things contributed to their hackles being raised, the silly speeeches from govt people trying to associate HE with forced marriage, increased likelihood of abuse etc But the single event which made them so angry that they made the time to get active in a political campaign, for the first time ever for most of them, was meeting Graham Badman, in which he spoke the studidest sentence about their children: 'All flowers, growing so well in the garden, need a florist.'
Pause whilst you take in the full stupidity of that notion.
Your perspective, based on the people you know who HE, is clearly your own. However, other people have experienced things differently to you. Neither you or I can extrapolate to a comprehensive theory of home educators from our own limited experiences of a certain number of them.
Webb says-I might also observe that these people, like me, regarded monitoring by the local authority as one of life’s minor irritations; something which they could cheerfully do without, but which was not really all that important.
ReplyDeletebut its not a minor irritation if the LA officer is hostile to home education and may not like you or your child he has the power to forward your name to social servies and can help to get school attendance order issued.many LA officers hate home education and want to ban it. so if he gets into your house he will be looking for evidence to use against you!
you dont need to spend hours making life difficult for an LA just tell them in writing by recorded mail to follow the law on home education and that you wont need a home visit or a meeting that soon gets rid of them!
'It is perhaps this mindset, of people more interested in making their own and other people’s lives difficult, which explains the lack of interest in discussing education per se. When there are so many amusing schemes to be discussed for getting one over on local authority officers, why would one wish to waste time thinking about the boring idea of teaching science?'
ReplyDeleteNo, that's not the reason.
I didn't comment this time on the science blog post, because I don't teach science any more. My chicks are out of the HE nest, now at FE college. I come here to read about current developments in HE and to present my own perspective such as the first comment here.
I can't speak for your other readers, but I suspect they didn't find anything particularly controversial in your science post.
'Neither you or I can extrapolate to a comprehensive theory of home educators from our own limited experiences of a certain number of them.'
ReplyDeleteAnd I would not disagree with that. I have to say that I made no effort to contact my local authority when we moved here and would have been quite content never to have had any visits. I simply did not find it a big deal when Essex did find us and want to visit. I am also aware that there are some idiotic local authority officers who have not the least idea about home education. This does not really matter, because the worst thing likely to happen is that some person of this sort will disapprove of what you as a parent are doing. I can live with disapproval!
Simon.
>>>'Neither you or I can extrapolate to a comprehensive theory of home educators from our own limited experiences of a certain number of them.'
ReplyDeleteAnd I would not disagree with that.<<<
That's eactly what you tried to do. You tried to claim that serious home educators don't get involved with campaigns. That is the gist of this quote from your post:
'Now you might easily suppose that most home educating parents were like this; primarily concerned with education and ensuring that their children learn at least enough to prepare them for adult life. You would be wrong. There is far more interest on the larger lists and forums in working out ingenious ways to frustrate attempts by the local authority to find out about the education being provided for children.'
I have explained that, in my own experience, it was the serious HE families who valued academic results etc who campaigned the hardest. After meeting GB and hearing his florist theory.
Perhaps I did not emphasise sufficently the really annoying part of this business about the pig's heart. Many parents complain about visits and do not want them. Here is a local authority which simply asks instead for a brief written account of the education and instead of saying, 'Ah, what a relief, no visits!', these characters try to make even a simple report like this a complicated and difficult business.
ReplyDeleteSimon.
Yes, the pig's heart thing was ridiculous.
ReplyDeleteIf you wished to make sure that we only responded to that point, perhaps you shouldn't have thrown in all the rest of it.
'You tried to claim that serious home educators don't get involved with campaigns. That is the gist of this quote from your post:'
ReplyDeleteThere are campaigns and campaigns. Although I had no problem with Badman and Schedule 1 of the CSF Bill, I realise that many parents did and it was quite reasonable to work against the proposals. This is quite a different matter from going out of one's way to make sending in an annual report about a child's education as difficult for all concerned as can possibly be done!
Simon.
'If you wished to make sure that we only responded to that point, perhaps you shouldn't have thrown in all the rest of it.'
ReplyDeleteI did so ,because this one idea encapsulates a way of thinking, a desire for confrontation.
Simon.
'There are campaigns and campaigns. Although I had no problem with Badman and Schedule 1 of the CSF Bill, I realise that many parents did and it was quite reasonable to work against the proposals. This is quite a different matter from going out of one's way to make sending in an annual report about a child's education as difficult for all concerned as can possibly be done!'
ReplyDeleteI agree, Simon. Unfortunately, I think that this kind of attitude is a direct legacy of the Badman debacle.
I can't imagine anyone, say, 4 years ago, suggesting such a response to being asked for written information about their HE.
Govt and LA's have a lot of work to do to repair relationships in order that idiots who make such sggestions don't get serious consideration.
Webb says-This does not really matter, because the worst thing likely to happen is that some person of this sort will disapprove of what you as a parent are doing. I can live with disapproval!
ReplyDeleteno an LA officer can refer a famly to social services/and start the process of a school attendance order if LA officer says he has concerns about what you the parent are doing he can start the process of SAO which thens means you would have to spend a great deal of time dealing with this and dealing with social services would also take up a lot of time becuase once your in the systen it is very hard to get out! SS always belive the LA officer and would contine to be concerned about you/your children even if you had showed them that everything was ok.
'no an LA officer can refer a famly to social services/and start the process of a school attendance order if LA officer says he has concerns about what you the parent are doing '
ReplyDeleteOne has to ask one's self, which would be more likely to cause a local authority officer to embark upon this course of action; the sending of a report on a child's education or despatching a pig's heart.
Simon.
anon says-One has to ask one's self, which would be more likely to cause a local authority officer to embark upon this course of action; the sending of a report on a child's education or despatching a pig's heart.
ReplyDeleteboth! An LA officer can start the process of a SAO just by saying he has concerns about you as the parent or about the childs education LA officer can also refer your family to SS once your refered to SS you would have to spend a great deal of time dealing with them. I would not advise sending in a pigs heart as this would of course offend muslim/ jewish people and who ever does this should be reported to the police! this would be a racial crime and the police must look into this matter.
LA officers can and do cause a great deal of trouble for home educating parents/children by issueing SAO or threating to you then have to spend a lot of time trying to sort it all out and at the same time educate your children! the problem is that LA officers are not held to account you try complaining about them very little is ever done to put matters right! and you can rest assured that after all of this your still marked down as a family who are not home educating in the right way.
one other thing it was in the news if you complain to much you can be marked down as troublesome by your council and should you ever need to visit a council building you can be on a blacklist that prevents you from being allowed into building what have people done to be put on blacklist by council officers? here are some reason talking loud on phone makeing repeated complant but not swearing! to many letters of complaints or refusing to accept the outcome of a complaint.you only found out your on the blacklist when you go to the council officer for something!
"I have explained that, in my own experience, it was the serious HE families who valued academic results etc who campaigned the hardest. After meeting GB and hearing his florist theory."
ReplyDeleteThat is interesting. Of course its these very people that are less likely to need the services of the LA, so maybe that is why they felt they could campaign the hardest. Some of us need the services of the LA, especially those with children with SEND. However on some lists they daren't speak out and say that they are involved with the LA in that way for fear of being attacked.
We are unknown, as we have never been to school, but my son is now of the age that we will need the services of the LA. And yet if I start having visits I will then be ostracised by the people who had kids bright enough to not need the services of the LA so who had no problem in refusing visits or campaigning against them.
anon says-We are unknown, as we have never been to school, but my son is now of the age that we will need the services of the LA. And yet if I start having visits I will then be ostracised by the people who had kids bright enough to not need the services of the LA so who had no problem in refusing visits or campaigning against them.
ReplyDeletewhat services do you need? very little is given to home educators by most LA's
you dont have to tell the other HE that you are going to have visits from your LA most groups only ask once or twice if your having a visit and you can just say no not at this time most people lose interst then! you can easy bluff you way around this question should people ask but most people are more intersted in they child so relaz and just bluff it out!
we will never have visits but if other home educators want a visit that is your choice have one but i very much doubt your get much out of it! and remember the LA women/man is looking for evidence that education may not be taking place in they eyes so be careful!
"Some of us need the services of the LA, especially those with children with SEND."
ReplyDeleteThe LA offers services for children with SEN?
"Perhaps this is because there are so many Muslims and Jews working for the local authority, that even a joke about sending one of them a pig’s heart would be liable to result in disciplinary proceedings."
ReplyDeleteWouldn't want to be deemed "Islamophobic" now would we.
anon says-Wouldn't want to be deemed "Islamophobic" now would we.
ReplyDeleteit would be a racist crime if any one sent a pigs heart to a muslim the police would record it as a racist crime and would then put in extra resourses to find out who had done this.The polcie treat racist crimes very serious.
>>>>"Some of us need the services of the LA, especially those with children with SEND."
ReplyDeleteThe LA offers services for children with SEN? <<<<
Good luck with that, then. Many of my group had kids with various special needs. (Autism, Downs, Deafness, VI) None got any special services from the LA once they were home educating. If your LA has anything to offer other than 'support' (which only usually means meddlesome visits) then I'd be astonished.
I know, it can be a real pain when you want a visit and people try to talk you out of it. Don't listen. If you want a visit for a specific reason because you KNOW that's the way to access some service or another, then you just do it and I'm sure most people would understand. But please, do your research and make sure that specific service is ACTUALLY on offer from your LA and not just an assumption on your part that it OUGHT to be on offer.
Because many have tried and many have failed.
>>>>>"I have explained that, in my own experience, it was the serious HE families who valued academic results etc who campaigned the hardest. After meeting GB and hearing his florist theory."
ReplyDeleteThat is interesting. Of course its these very people that are less likely to need the services of the LA, so maybe that is why they felt they could campaign the hardest. Some of us need the services of the LA, especially those with children with SEND.<<<<
Also, I'm not sure why you would think that all of the people I'm talking about had super bright kids. Many did, but some (including me), had a mixture of kids. They varied from those who might be thought of as gifted at school, through the very average, to others with various special needs.
One of my children has a Borderline IQ, but I still was serious about her education and valued her academic results. There was never any 'support' on offer, though.
Simon wrote... A couple of days ago, I posted a fairly long piece here about teaching science at home. Nobody commented all day, which prompted one person to ask in the evening, ‘is discussing actual education less popular than some other topics?’
ReplyDeleteNo, I would have been very interested in this post but am mostly too busy to comment just now. It's a shame you couldn't have talked about actual education sooner.
' It's a shame you couldn't have talked about actual education sooner.'
ReplyDeleteBack in the knife box with you, Miss Sharp!
Simon.
Simon wrote
ReplyDeleteBack in the knife box with you, Miss Sharp!
Sorry, I couldnt resist making the point. I am looking forward to discussing education when time permits though.
Sending people a pigs heart eh?
ReplyDeleteThat's covered by The Postal Services Act 2000 sections 83/84.
Sorry section 85.
ReplyDeleteIn fact, by suggesting the sending of such materials may be seen in law as Encouragement or Assisting a crime.
ReplyDeleteThe materials such as a pigs heart falls into two categories, as a pathogen or as a poisonous/ infectious substance. Maybe both.
I'm pretty sure that should any council official recieve such material, the sender would be prosecuted in much the same manner as if they had sent Anthrax or Ricin through the post.
"it would be a racist crime if any one sent a pigs heart to a muslim the police would record it as a racist crime and would then put in extra resourses to find out who had done this.The polcie treat racist crimes very serious."
ReplyDeleteOh what utter twaddle! Clearly many of you don't even know what racism is.
/ˈreɪsɪz(ə)m/
noun
[mass noun]
the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race , especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.
prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior:
Blight of the chattering classes - that's all they are good for - chattering.
It's harassment and an offence.
ReplyDelete"Sending people a pigs heart eh?
ReplyDeleteThat's covered by The Postal Services Act 2000 sections 83/84."
It was a JOKE. A comedian recently joked that he was going to feed a person with coeliac disease some wheat. Do you think he should be prosecuted for threatening behaviour? Another joked that he had actually done this and that it appeared not to affect the person. Should he be prosecuted for assault? No. Because they were joking and had no intention of carrying out the actions. Understand the difference?
Hey, just imagine if the victim of that 'joke' had died from Anaphalaxis. One commedian banged up for murder.
ReplyDeleteGlad you find it so funny, it speaks volumes about home educators.
Coeliac disease has nothing to do with anaphylaxis and I was speaking as someone with coeliac disease, not as a home educator. I found the whole routine hilariously funny, to be honest and didn't feel under threat at all. At no point did I believe that the comedian actually intended to feed wheat/gluten to a person with coeliac disease - because it was a *joke*.
ReplyDeleteYou found that hilariously funny, what is it with you HEers?????
ReplyDeleteIt's the crappiest *joke* I've ever heard, I prefer the one about the horse going into a bar...now that's what you call a joke.
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