Tuesday, 16 August 2011
Possible disadvantage with home education which may actually be an advantage
I have never found any disadvantage in home education as far as education itself is concerned. Nor have I ever observed lack of socialisation causing my daughter any problems. One thing that has bothered me over the years is that children like this, who have been the centre of their parents’ lives in a more personal way than those who are sent to school, might come to believe themselves to be more special and important than is actually the case. In other words they might, at worst, grow into spoiled brats and at best grow up thinking that they are frightfully clever/talented/important. I have certainly noticed that my own daughter acts as though she knows more than other people and that her views and opinions are more likely to be correct than anybody else’s. Of course, part of this is adolescence in general and might not be all that different from schooled teenagers. It is something that I have been aware of though and tried actively to discourage. It has not helped that newspapers and radio stations contact her for her views on various things; The Guardian are ringing her tomorrow to ask what she thinks about A levels!
What struck me a few weeks ago is that this mindset might not necessarily be a bad thing. Often, we tend to listen to those who appear to know what they are talking about and confident people have their views taken into account in a way that the more hesitant and timid among us do not. This was brought home to me forcefully when my daughter got a job for the summer. Not for her of course the waitressing or baby-sitting that the daughters of our friends fall back upon for pocket money. She has instead been engaged as the marketing assistant for an ICT company in the city. She is now running their twitter, face book and so on, as well as revamping their email newsletters, ad campaigns and various other things about which I know little. I was slightly staggered that a high profile company should give a job like this to a 17 year-old who has never worked anywhere before. As far as I can make out, she got it by sheer cheek and horrifying confidence. In other words, her feeling that she is clever and important paid off and she was able to persuade others to buy into her own valuation of herself. For a reticent person like me, this kind of thing is hard to understand. Nevertheless, it seems to work and I am reluctantly compelled to conclude that a teenager thinking and acting as though she is clever and talented might not be something to discourage after all. Perhaps what I have always thought of as one of the bad points of home education might instead be one of its strengths!
your daughter got this job because the ICT company knew she is a PC correct Labour party member who worked for Ed Balls!
ReplyDeleteWorn out Williams says:
ReplyDeleteyour daughter got this job because the ICT company knew she is a PC correct Labour party member who worked for Ed Balls!
It is possible, but I am not too sure how many city companies recruit staff on the basis of their being politically correct Labour Party members. More research needed on this claim!
Simon.
I think school tends to knock the confidence out of young people rather than HE building them up. But as school is the norm, young people with low self confidence are the norm (though I know some who appear to come through school comparatively unscathed - I wonder what they would have been like without school?).
ReplyDeleteI still remember an incident in a school corridor from many, many years ago. I must have been feeling happy about something and was striding confidently down the corridor when a couple of boys made some comment along the lines of, 'who does she think she is, what a prat'. This type of thing, along with the constant testing which suggests you are only valued for what you know and remember by adults/authority, along with the negative reaction from your peer group when you do well in such tests gradually grinds people down. I think they get to the point where they don't know whether to big themselves up or talk themselves down and attempting either feels wrong and artificial - like a lie.
My impression is that my daughter was able to really discuss her ideas as an equal (whilst still being willing to learn from those with more knowledge and with enough self knowledge to criticise her own work) without feeling guilty about her enthusiasm for the subject. If she made it to an interview at a university she was offered a place and I think her attitude to her work had much to do with this. My son has done the same in job interviews.
I really hope that our children don't end up going through the grinding down process, just a little later than others. Hopefully encountering this type of attitude and behaviour at an older age will make the difference. And maybe there will be less danger of meeting it out of the artificial atmosphere of schools anyway?
'I really hope that our children don't end up going through the grinding down process,'
ReplyDeleteThat is precisely the right expression for what happens in schools. Anybody standing out as being a bit more clever, keener, individual and so on is ground down until indistinguishable from all the others. Exactly why, of course, I favoured home education.
Simon.
Webb says-Exactly why, of course, I favoured home education.
ReplyDeleteonly for your daughter you do not support a choice for all state schooled children to be asked if they want to be home educated and if many did you would not help them to be home educated
'only for your daughter you do not support a choice for all state schooled children to be asked if they want to be home educated and if many did you would not help them to be home educated'
ReplyDeleteAs mad and untrue as most of what peter Williams says here. Time perhaps to hear what he himself has been doing to help state school pupils be educated at home.
Simon.
Go gurrlll, all the best.
ReplyDeleteIt has been exciting to see my children go right through the HE process with their confidence and self-etsteem intact. They really do think they can do anything. LOL! Obviously, realism will set in eventually. But I am so happy for them that, for now, the world is their oyster.
ReplyDeletepete's showing his true cards today...must be time to up his medication again.
ReplyDeleteworn out Webb says-As mad and untrue as most of what peter Williams says here. Time perhaps to hear what he himself has been doing to help state school pupils be educated at home.
ReplyDeletehave made all of Peter friends who still go to a state school that you can be home educated and have told them it is legal a number of his friends had no idea about home education nor did the parents! have wrote letter to our M.P and to department for education and to weird Ed Balls.
What you done Webb to make sure that Al state schooled childre can have a choice about home education?
anon says-pete's showing his true cards today...must be time to up his medication again.
ReplyDeleteno need for medication as i prefer a glass of fine white wine may have red this weekend as a treat LOL
i give you a truthfull statement Webb Hampshire LA tell lies!
ReplyDeleteThunderbird isn't fine wine, and judging by your comments it's evident that you're an alcoholic.
ReplyDeleteanon say-Thunderbird isn't fine wine, and judging by your comments it's evident that you're an alcoholic.
ReplyDeletewho the hell is thunderbird is she a hot chick you know? judging by your comments its clear your a fool who loves Simon Webb.
dont you like red wine?
Yes, I recognise this too. In my first job I was hopeless at most things, not because I couldn't do them but because I thought I couldn't. I was tongue-tied on the phone, used to flap and panic at the till and so on. I got the job in the first place by my mother contacting someone she knew! Home ed daughter walked into local cafe at the age of twelve and asked if she could display her photographs on the wall and that was her first money earning experience. She has no problem with talking to adults and I have noticed that she often seems to get what she wants from them - possibly because they're charmed by a teenager who isn't all squished with anxiety.
ReplyDelete'judging by your comments it's evident that you're an alcoholic. '
ReplyDeleteAnd the Doctor is in!
anon says-'judging by your comments it's evident that you're an alcoholic. '
ReplyDeleteAnd the Doctor is in!
your a drug dealer then LOL and you need to go to prison i say for 30 years!
red merlot 2nite LOl
Simon is spot on. Confidence gets you everywhere. I was state schooled but had an inbuilt self belief system due to my 'out of school' activities and schools in the 70' and 80's were nowhere near as bad as they are now. I watched my son fight tooth and nail to retain his individuality but he was almost beaten down by Year 7. At this point I started HE and 12 months later my confident, opinionated son is back.
ReplyDeleteI happened to bump into his Year 6 teacher and told her what had happened. She asked me to pass on this message to him...'you can do whatever you want, you have the confidence'.
Self-belief is what makes successful people.
That is a strange attitude Peter, all of those advancements in medical science, medicines, vaccines and techniques. The leap in proceedures and quality of care, it's such a shame that you don't appreciate the work of our medical practitioners...
ReplyDeleteWhy don't you trust doctors, nurses or medicine?
anon says-That is a strange attitude Peter, all of those advancements in medical science, medicines, vaccines and techniques. The leap in proceedures and quality of care, it's such a shame that you don't appreciate the work of our medical practitioners...
ReplyDeleteWhy don't you trust doctors, nurses or medicine?
what the hell are you on about? i only visit doctor when i am ill dont you? you one of those people who waste the doctor time by endless going to see him?
mind you not so sure about quailty of care in some hospitals many old people left to starve as nurses would not feed them!
And Dr Joan Freeman, the psychologist?
ReplyDeleteThought you said she nips in for a cup of tea.
ReplyDeleteDoes she nip in for a cup of tea because she likes your PG Tips, or is it because she's doing an ongoing psychological study on Peter jnr?
ReplyDeletePeter, you make a rather strange comment above 'is she a hot chick you know?'
ReplyDeleteThat comment implies that you hold a negative and stereotyped opinion of women and view them as sex objects.
Your comments reveal that you are immature and misogynist, most certainly creepy.
In which case Dr Freeman would have noticed those more unpleasant personality defects.
ReplyDeleteAnd yet, here you are putting yourself through psychological study and evalution and crowing in a most unpleasant manner regarding the Webbs and Graham Badman.
Your obsession with goading Peter is getting boring and repetitive now... And it doesn't appear to be working either. So who is the stupid one here?
ReplyDeleteIt's not goading....
ReplyDeleteit's spelling out just how much private information about his family life he has realeased into the public domain. Private information, that includes rather specific references to where he lives and consequences that his child may well have to live with in the future.
He's made his family public property.
ReplyDelete"Private information, that includes rather specific references to where he lives and consequences that his child may well have to live with in the future."
ReplyDeleteJust as Simon has, so why not address your comments to him too? It is his blog after all.
It's not goading...
ReplyDeleteIt's coercion.
"It's not goading...
ReplyDeleteIt's coercion."
How can you force someone to do something against their will by spouting off on the internet?
Got you commenting....
ReplyDeleteBut I'm not Peter and I'm not commenting against my will!
ReplyDeleteYou're commenting because you're one of those anally retentive types..
ReplyDeleteMost likely... I've always been a bit of a perfectionist; it's something I've had to guard against with my family and I worry about passing it on to my children, at least in excessive amounts - a certain level of perfectionism can be useful. I find it helps in my main sphere of interest (science), for instance. The point is, I've not been coerced to comment ;-)
ReplyDeleteWhat you describe above is Maladaptive/Neurotic Perfectionism....
ReplyDeleteA Personality Disorder.
Of course you've been coerced..
ReplyDeleteIt's all down to Stimulus-Response.
It's more likely that you're sitting somewhere on the Narcissistic/Pseudo-perfectionist scale..
ReplyDeleteYou come across as one of those, all part of an immature grandiose self image and needing to be the centre of attention.
LOL! Which explains why I comment anonymously, of course. Did you want to be a doctor when you were little?
ReplyDeleteThat's a rather interesting condescention tactic that you've now adopted, very revealing.
ReplyDeleteBut you make it so easy. Do you really expect respect for insulting people? Sounds like the mindset of a bully. Don't like what someone says? Then attack the person until they stop.
ReplyDeleteYes, his/her attempts to goad Peter smacked of bullying too (pun accidental).
ReplyDeleteAnd now it feels like we are ganging up on the 'doctor'. Probably time to stop this discussion before it deteriorates any further.
ReplyDeleteI suppose the 'bullying' groupspeak was to be expected...
ReplyDeleteIf anything ended meaningful discussion here it was the degeneration into name calling and I think that was down to you. Discussion had ended well before any mention of bullying.
ReplyDeleteOh please don't lie..
ReplyDeleteThere was no name calling, you said you were a perfectionist, I told you what that meant.
You replied with accusations of bullying, I recognised your cultlike groupspeak.
I notice that you haven't been so outspoken when Peter made attacks on his local group organiser, Simon and Simone.
Ohhh, so calling me an anally retentive type was a complement, not an insult, sorry for the misunderstanding.
ReplyDeleteYou do know what annally retentive means and that it was the reason for the perfectionist comment, don't you? It was an attempt to turn an insult into constructive criticism. Maybe you should try it.
ReplyDeleteJudging by your comments, I was right first time.
ReplyDeleteCalling someone anally retentive isn't an insult, more of an observation.
ReplyDeleteIf you say so... If that's true, then why is the bullying comment any different? You displayed bullying behaviour and I commented on the observation. If you don't think I should take offence at anally retentive, why take offence at being called a bully since that's clearly what was happening.
ReplyDeleteI'm not taking offence at anything...
ReplyDeleteMerely pointing out that you're obviously obsessive/compulsive and that you're talking in a cultlike manner.
Talking about bullying is cult like? Yeah right.
ReplyDelete'Bullying'....
ReplyDeleteHow emotive.
And that's wrong because...?
ReplyDeleteAh... the context in which you use the term 'bullying' is overtly tactical.
ReplyDeleteIt's a technique known as 'emotive arousal'.
And your use of 'cult like' wasn't intended to tactically shut down discussion? I honestly cannot think of an alternative word to bullying to describe your earlier behaviour though. I would love for you to give me an alternative that isn't 'emotive arousal', if you know one. Or is nobody allowed to mention bullying at all? Are we not supposed to point it out when we see it? Should we ignore it as teachers often do in schools? What is your solution to the problem?
ReplyDeleteJust looked up 'emotive arousal'. A very good description of the result of bullying behaviour like yours. Pot and kettle spring to mind...
ReplyDeleteNow, that one is a very common cult technique, very popular with the more destructive organisations.
ReplyDeleteFinger Pointing..
But you've been consistently and openly using other cult techniques and they've been identified on many home education/homeschooling websites.
Unfortunately some of those sites are also connected to extremist right wing politics.
I don't have to shut down the debate, just allow you to continue commenting.
ReplyDeleteHow is my suggestion that your goading of Peter was bullying 'cult like'? Is a belief that bullying is wrong a religious belief or a ritual of some kind? Is it an attempt at mind control to point out bullying behaviour? Do you think bullying is a good thing to be encouraged? How exactly have I tried to trick you into joining a cult and coerced you to stay? Idiot.
ReplyDeleteAnd how on earth have you concluded I'm right wing? If anything, your support of Simon in his attacks on Peter would suggest that you are also right wing (as Simon is). For your information if I'm anything I'm a left wing libertarian.
You said,
"I don't have to shut down the debate, just allow you to continue commenting."
This 'discussion' lost any resemblance to debate once you started goading Peter. Since then it's descended into pointless bickering so I'll leave you to have the last word if you want it.
I seem to remember Peter being quite insulting to several people that have commented on this blog..
ReplyDeleteIt's a website, he's familiar with the concept of flaming and getting flamed.
Your suggestion of 'bullying' is based upon your dogmatic belief in the 'us and them' attitudes that you have aquired from anti school sources. That dogmatic belief is an expression of prejudices commonly found in cults.
ReplyDeleteA more balanced attitude would be to accept that in the debate of home education there are detractors as well as supporters.
ReplyDeleteYou also have an aquired bunker mentality...
ReplyDeleteYou were told by HE militants that Graham Badman, elements within government and society in general were/are opposed to HE.
You and other took the attitude that the world was against you.
Most of the general public don't care one way or the other about HE, but they know enough to understand that HE for all is a ridiculous notion.
As for the politicians, they must be seen to act after cases of serious and fatal child abuse involving HE..
They have screwed up education in general as well as the economy, have been involved in global conflicts that may be illegal and caught out abusing their expenses.
They get voted out of power, things improve as common sense prevails.
Your aquired 'us and them' attitude leads to the bunker mentality..
ReplyDeleteThat was what happened at that infamous religious/home schooling compound at Waco, Texas.
Bullying isn't to be encouraged..but it doesn't seem to bother many of those who attend HE groups, and treat anyone who doesn't agree wholeheartedly with TCS/HE-UK type anti school propaganda with disdain.
ReplyDeleteBlind obedience, prejudice and over reliance on quasi self help/support groups shopuldn't be encouraged either.
You'll notice that I didn't conclude that you were right wing, only that you had aquired certain attitudes and used certain techniques found on the sites frequented by race hate extremist homeschoolers. Peter Williams, was featured on one particularly nasty race hate site.
ReplyDeleteYou claim that Simon Webb is right wing, some might find that allegation deliberately inflammatory and offensive.
I doubt that Simon was/or is right wing..
I believe that he has commented regarding extensive family ties and connections to Jewish communities and Israel.
BTW..you have proved and stated on other occasions that you don't understand the political/anarcho principles behind libertarianism, but here you are declaring yourself a Left Wing Libertarian.
You must have decided that after reading Sarah Fitz Claridge's nonsense...
The correct term is Left-Libertarian or Libertarian Socialist.
You might be reminded that elements of the NSDAP were Left-Libertarian, but perhaps you knew that already.
Just popping in here after a while and notice someone commenting long after anyone has been replying to his nonsense. It seems as though the last 6 posts were from one anti-HE poster?
ReplyDelete'I doubt that Simon was/or is right wing..
I believe that he has commented regarding extensive family ties and connections to Jewish communities and Israel.'
How odd of you to assert this. Simon has many times assured us that he votes Tory. Having a relative in Israel stops you from being a Tory voter? You need to take this up with Simon.
Also,
'Most of the general public don't care one way or the other about HE, but they know enough to understand that HE for all is a ridiculous notion.'
Who is it that you think is promoting the idea of 'HE for all'? Are you trying to set up a straw man?
Ahhh...another HE cultist.
ReplyDeleteYou asked
'Who is it that you think is promoting the idea of HE for all?'
Whichever type of idiot comes up with slogans like.......
'home education is individual, suitable and efficient. Schooling for the masses is unsuitable and inefficient.'
Found that little nugget of stupidity and loads more like it on a well known HE forum.
Schooling is likely to be unsuitable and inefficient for a reasonably large number of school pupils purely because they are not all the same and learn in different ways. Schools have to provide information in a variety of ways to give all children a chance to learn. At home you get to know how your child learns so you don't need to repeat it so many times in different ways to cater for mass numbers.
ReplyDelete'Who is it that you think is promoting the idea of HE for all?'
ReplyDelete'Whichever type of idiot comes up with slogans like.......
'home education is individual, suitable and efficient. Schooling for the masses is unsuitable and inefficient.''
So, you are arguing with someone from a 'well-known forum', not there where they are, but here?
Weird.
I have been to a lot of bloc for study and I can claim that it is one of the finest educational resources. Dissertation
ReplyDelete