One of the great disadvantages of being a middle class, white heterosexual in this country is that you seldom get the chance to play the victim. After all, we hold all the levers of power in the land; we make the very rules. Sure, we can ring our hands about the plight of starving Africans and writhe in synthetic agony at the destruction of the rain forests, but it doesn’t really hit us where we live and we can forget about it all until the next time we feel like chucking Oxfam a couple of quid. This is why Graham Badman's enquiry came as such a boon to some people; it gave them the chance to pose as victims themselves; to present themselves as prisoners of conscience.
For good or ill , the Badman business fell by the wayside and the legal situation remained unchanged, leaving many middle class home educators bereft; they could no longer claim to be on the verge of becoming political prisoners! Whatever was to be done to maintain the illusion? The answer was simple. Any letter from their local authority was to be scrutinised for offence and if that didn’t work then the council’s website would be trawled and Freedom of Information requests made until something turned up to which exception could be taken. Keep this up long enough and sooner or later you will come across some old document or flow-chart which hints that not all local authorities are abiding by every tiny detail of the law. Then you can once again make out that you are a victim; only a step or two down from a deported Jew about to enter a gas chamber.
There is something peculiarly middle class about this whole business of pretending that getting a snotty letter from your local council is on a par with being persecuted for one’s beliefs or ethnicity; middle class and horribly pretentious. Of course local authorities often misquote the law, either because they are in a muddle themselves or because they are trying it on. Normal people laugh it off and get on with their lives. I worked once at an East End market and the council was always sending threatening letters and promising to prosecute stallholders. The standard response was for the men to take the letters with them when they were about to visit the lavatory, telling their mates that they were going to wipe their arse with the council’s latest nonsense. This indicates that ordinary working class people tend to have a much healthier and more robust view of the realities of the world than some neurotic, middle class types!
There are signs that this kind of thing is starting to subside a little. It coincides with the latest figures, which show that home education is no longer on the increase. Perhaps in a year or two it will all be over. Those who seized upon home education as an alternative remedy like homeopathy will send their kids back to school and get on with their lives. The only remaining home educators will be those who genuinely want to home educate; those who choose to undertake their child’s education for positive and ideological reasons.
Most home educators genuinely want to home educate and in practice most are not middle class. THose I come across are usually not well of and woprking class
ReplyDeleteThose I've come across either like to pretend they're middle class, or are middle class and like to pretend to be working class.
DeleteWhilst I agree that the extremist home educators can be a little over the top in their conspiracy theories and assumptions, most home educators I know are neither well off, neurotic or middle class. They are doing a fine job and educating their children very well.
ReplyDeleteI don't see why you feel it is wrong for them to stand up for their rights. If they don't have to have visits/give reports/jump through various hoops, then why would they?
The latest snotty letter from our local authority claimed that my children were Missing In Education and that this was based on the fact that I had moved house and hadn't notified them. I was very distraught that my family would have this label on our record. Not to mention, this is rubbish as there is no law to say I have to notify the LA if I move house, so of course I corrected their assumptions.
This does not make me middle classed, neurotic or pretentious and I certainly cant laugh it off either because they may then think its ok to behave this way.
Its like a naughty child who doesn't know they are naughty unless you teach them the difference between right and wrong.
I wonder why it bothers you so much that we don't all bow down and conform like good little people?
The interesting thing I did gain from your post was: There are signs that this kind of thing is starting to subside a little. It coincides with the latest figures, which show that home education is no longer on the increase.
What evidence and figures are you using to produce these sentences? I am always fascinated by evidence and research pertaining to home education.
'What evidence and figures are you using to produce these sentences?'
ReplyDeleteYou might want to go on this site:
http://edyourself.org/research/
Figures were obtained from all local authorities in England and showed that there had been no increase in numbers over the last three years. Considering that some LAs are making strenuous efforts to track down children not at school, this indicates that not only are the numbers flat-lining, but may even be declining.
' I was very distraught that my family would have this label on our record. Not to mention, this is rubbish as there is no law to say I have to notify the LA if I move house, so of course I corrected their assumptions.'
Well it is a matter of perception. Precisely the same thing happened to us when we moved to Essex from London. An EWO caught wind of the fact that there was a child not at school and my own daughter was listed as missing from edcuation! The difference is that we found it quite funny. Why on earth would you care if your local authority thought this? What is this label that was making you distraught?
'I wonder why it bothers you so much that we don't all bow down and conform like good little people?'
Not sure about this. I am just puzzled why people get so worked up about it every time their council screws up and misunderstands the law. I can't see why it matters that much.
Simon.
Thank you for the research link.
ReplyDeleteI was distraught because being labelled MIE, implies that I am somehow preventing my children from receiving an education, that I am hiding them or at the very least unknown to professionals. This bothers me. Maybe it shouldn't but it does.
Perhaps this is why I find it odd that it doesn't bother you. I suppose I am surprised given how quick you are to correct others on your blog/lists etc, that you would allow something like incorrect assumptions from LAs to go unmentioned. Again, just a supposition of mine.
There has been talk on the lists of a growing number of families with young children who have never sent them to school and are consequently unknown to the LA. This certainly seems to be the case in our local group. Maybe this apparent levelling of growth isn't accurate?
ReplyDeleteAs a working class home educator with a perfectly workable relationship with my local authority, I was vehemently against Badman. Not because it fit my conspiracy theory but because the report was poorly researched claptrap written as a kneejerk response to one particularly horrendous child protection case which wasn't even a home education issue in the first place.
ReplyDeleteI suspect Jane that this is the case. I dont think families are tending to pull their kids out of school these days, more often they are choosing to never send them in the first place and this alters the data somewhat.
ReplyDeleteIf you think it was a 'knee jerk reaction' to one single 'child protection case then you're seriously deluded and have bought into the online hype and hysteria spread by the HE gurus.
ReplyDeleteBadman was a response to several well known abuse cases and child murders.
Eunice Spry
Lianne and Martin Smith
Kyrah Isaq
There were/are other cases that presented cause for concern that are not presented but are known of on a local basis.
The Smiths fled to Spain when their eldest child was 3, they died before she was old enough to start school in Spain and also after the Badman Review This had nothing to do with the Badman Review.
ReplyDeleteEunice Spry was well know to her LA and had many HE visits as well as Social Services checking in order to foster and adopt. The children ran away and complained of ill treatment but were returned to Spry by Social Services. None of the Badman recommendations would have changed this.
Kyrah was known to be at risk whilst still in school and they had a home visit from the LA as well as attempted visits from the police and social services as far as I recall. Social Services had enough reason to force a home visit at any time but they didn't. Again, nothing in the Badman recommendations would have helped.
I wish people would stop using the deaths of children to push their own agenda however unrelated they are to their cause.
'The Smiths fled to Spain when their eldest child was 3, they died before she was old enough to start school in Spain and also after the Badman Review This had nothing to do with the Badman Review.'
ReplyDeleteYou seem to be forgetting the Education Otherwise connection and the Martin Smith's paedophilia. This affair led some people to suggest that EO was either lax on child protection or might even be turning a blind eye to certain things. Do you really not know about this?
Simon.
Of course the Smith case informed the Badman Review. The Smiths fled to Spain after Martin Smith was accused by his common law step-daughter in 2007, he was tried and convicted of attempted rape, rape and indecent assault in 2010. His crimes spanned 9 years.
ReplyDeleteLianne Smith, was an area co-ord for EO.
The daughter that was the victim of Martin Smith, said her mother was 'cold towards her children','deeply flawed' and 'deluded'. Lianne didn't believe her daughter was being abused and showed her no support.
The Badman Review was commisioned in 2009.
Chris Spry appealed for home ed to be monitored.
ReplyDeleteAll reasonable, well adjusted adults 'wish people would stop using the deaths of children to push their own agenda'.
ReplyDeleteHowever, you don't come across as reasonable or well adjusted, more like someone who has swallowed the home ed party manifesto. That's quite clear by the way you quote HE disinformation and propaganda verbatim.
The Isaq case was far, far more complicated than a mere trivial school/authorities Vs home ed issue.
ReplyDeleteThat tragic abuse incident was underpinned by a deeply entrenched cultural belief in demonic possession and religion. There were records of severe mental health problems and poorly educated adult carers.
Still....it has been rather interesting watching someone attempting to take the moral high ground. Quite how you wrestle your conscience to worm your way out of taking any responsibility for supporting irresponsible online home ed groups is baffling. It's been known for years that the likes of HE-UK and EO will virtually write a home ed philosophy on demand.
ReplyDeleteAll the recipient has had to do is insert name and address.
It's all there on EO's 'HE and the law' page, there to see and copy..
ReplyDeleteEO doesn't care if you're a child protection risk, you can print it all off
Sample de-reg letter/special school re-reg
First contact letter
Insufficient evidence letter
Refusal to de-reg letter
Did someone mention the word 'Lax'?
ReplyDeleteThe word 'negligent' might be more appropriate..
Please can someone explain how the Badman Review recommendations specifically would have prevented any of these cases, because that was why they were quoted. Yes there are evil people around, but unless we know how their victims could have been helped, we will be putting more children at risk by wasting money that could be better spent.
ReplyDeleteChris Spry's HE was monitored, it didn't help him and I know of at least one other case where a family was regularly visited but it was someone from the HE community that raised the alarm - they received glowing reports from the LA.
No one seems able to point to specific actions at particular points in time where these children could have been helped, though there were often many wasted opportunities where SS already have powers to intervene.
How would the home educating 'support' groups prevent abuse cases?
ReplyDeleteAfter all, it's their call.
They've been quite clear that they don't like LAs, Social Services or Badman types or NSPCC or Barnardos.
'Chris Spry's HE was monitored, it didn't help him'
ReplyDeleteThis sounds to me like an argument for stronger monitoring; not a knockdown case against any sort of monitoring at all.
Simon.
So you think that diverting money towards regular exhaustive checks of thousands of innocent families is a good use of limited funds?
ReplyDeleteyou and your daughter still supporters of crazy old Badman is simone still arse licking her way up the labour party?
ReplyDelete"Anonymous28 May 2012 08:52
ReplyDeleteyou and your daughter still supporters of crazy old Badman is simone still arse licking her way up the labour party?"
Ah, I see the nutcases have crawled out of the woodwork
*sigh*
are you saying that simone is not a keen card carrying member of the the labour party? and she was also a supporter of crazy old Badman and fully supported is ideas on home education Simone is arse licking her way up the labour party!
ReplyDeleteHow Rude!
ReplyDelete08:52 is the reason why Badman was bought in. Sadly, he/she isn't an isolated and singular nutjob, more of an increasing number. Up there on the list of being a risk to public safety, sooner or later they're going to be found eating their own offspring.
ReplyDeleteFor the record....Eunice Spry home educated, abused and tortured 3 children in her care. Chris was one of them.
ReplyDeleteSpry was also convicted for perverting the course of justice.
It is widely reported that Spry manipulated the system.
'08:52 is the reason why Badman was bought in. Sadly, he/she isn't an isolated and singular nutjob, more of an increasing number. Up there on the list of being a risk to public safety, sooner or later they're going to be found eating their own offspring.'
ReplyDelete8:52 is of course none other than our old friend Peter Williams of Hampshire. This is the problem. I am quite prepared to believe that the great majority of home educating parents are as normal, sane, caring and devoted to their children's education as anybody else; more so in many cases. Unfortunately, mixed in among them are maniacs like Peter Williams and cruel people like Eunice Spry. The are obviously a minority, but the difficulty is identifying such parents and giving them extra attention, while leaving normal parents alone.
Simon.
if im a maniac webb and home educating then you have a duty to report me to the education and soical services why have you failed to do this? you want there number?
ReplyDelete'The are obviously a minority, but the difficulty is identifying such parents and giving them extra attention, while leaving normal parents alone.
ReplyDeleteSimon.'
This is the issue, isn't it? Perhaps the newly announced review will come up with some reasonable suggestions for solutions to that problem, though it's not actually meant to be covering the issue of safeguarding.
Old Mum
a lot of it has to do with if you speak your mind to so called education experts there dont like it! i have found if you ask them how much there geting paid by the tax payer makes them all uptight asked this fool from the council that once he never phoned again! lol
ReplyDeleteSpry had regular HE home visits as well as checks by social services because she fostered and adopted children. How would Badman's recommendations have made any difference since they were actually carried out in their case already?
ReplyDeletemost HE officers are rubbish at there job!the ones in Hampshire do not tell the truth
ReplyDeleteThose are pretty abusive posts from Mr Williams, he manages to confirm the fears regarding child safety in home education are justified.
ReplyDeleteYes Enice Spry had home visits..it just goes to prove how deceitful, manipulative and devious some home educators can be in hiding their abuse.
ReplyDelete'Yes Eunice Spry had home visits..it just goes to prove how deceitful, manipulative and devious some home educators can be in hiding their abuse.'
ReplyDeleteWhat I think you mean is '....some PEOPLE can be in hiding their abuse.'
Anyone who is determined to abuse their children can do so whther they are HE'ing or not. Before the child is of school age or after.
There is now a significant cohort of young adults who have been home educated. If abuse was more common among HE families then I think that it would be known by now. Some would have spoken out about it. I suspect it is actually less common.
Nevertheless, it is certainly possible to hide a child from anyone else for a long time. There is a case of this going through the courts at the moment where the mum had paranoid schizophrenia and kept the child hidden for 3 years. It's the rare cases that go spectactularly wrong that we need a solution to.
Just throwing out insults to the HE community at random, implying that it is full of deceitful, manipulative people intent on abuse doesn't help us find a solution.
Old Mum
'08:52 is the reason why Badman was bought in. Sadly, he/she isn't an isolated and singular nutjob, more of an increasing number. Up there on the list of being a risk to public safety, sooner or later they're going to be found eating their own offspring.'
ReplyDeleteThere isn't any reason for anyone to take this sort of statement seriously unless you can provide proof. Can you point us to any statistics?
Old Mum
Statistics...yes I can, but really cannot be bothered to quote crime statistics collected from police forces across the UK. Anyone with Mr Williams sort of backward and abusive attitude will at some point really annoy those around him until there is the crime of public affray committed. As for the comment 'eating their own offspring', it was a metaphorical expression.
DeleteHampshire LA officers tell lies and i have told them than and there have not taking libel action though the courts there are also rubbish at there job as well
ReplyDeleteI'm so sorry. I didn't understand that last comment. Was that in reply to something I said?
ReplyDeleteOld Mum
Hampshire LEA officers tell lies and have told them that in wrting and on the phone and there have not refuted or taking legal action over it.
ReplyDeleteI repeat it here again Hampshire LEA officer tell lies about people and children show them what i wrote Webb and your find there wont do anything cos there no i got the proof in writing about what there say about people via the data and freedom of information act!
Okaaaay...
ReplyDeleteI don't understand what this has to do with anything I wrote. However, perhaps it wasn't in response to anything I wrote and just a general rant. That's fine, if it is. I suppose anyone can choose anywhere to do that.
I was trying to have a conversation with other people about some specific things.
Old Mum
its not a rant it a fact Hampshire LEA officer tell lies about children and parents
ReplyDeleteOkay, I see.
ReplyDeleteOld Mum
'Okay, I see.
ReplyDeleteOld Mum'
Old Mum backs away cautiously, reaching for the telephone and hoping that she can remember the number of the local asylum, so that they can come round and collect one of their escaped inmates...
Simon.
"There isn't any reason for anyone to take this sort of statement seriously unless you can provide proof. Can you point us to any statistics?"
ReplyDeleteYes, they seem to be taking a leaf out of Badman's book and make it up as they go along. I think someone may have had a bad experience within HE and are so upset about it that they feel drawn to post repeated venting comments here, much like the other person who is upset at their LA. This blog seems to be a magnet for such people unfortunately, possibly because such abusive attacks on individuals and groups would not be tolerated elsewhere, so maybe it serves a purpose as a release valve.
I'm sorry they've had a bad experience. Yes, there are going to be 'bad' people amongst home educators and LA staff, those who are unkind to others, and of course much worse, just as there are amongst any group of humans. There is no reason to believe that home educators or LA staff would be any different from any other group in that respect. But there is also no evidence that they are any worse.
Not any of those really more that the blog allows some of us more experienced home educators to tell the truth about home education in Britain. It provides the opportunity for some of us to cut through the spin created by home ed internet gurus. It facilitates the flow of information regarding the negligent behaviour of Education Otherwise.
DeleteAnd...allows some of us to monitor just how much home education is being taken over by certain quasipolitical parties.
can you confrim that you Webb belive that LEA officers never lie?
ReplyDeletewhy have you refused to report me to Hampshire LEA when you belive that im a maniacs who is home educating you have a duty to report parents who you belive are not home educating why have you refused to do this?
it is a fact that Hampshire LEA officers tell lies i have the written proof!
if lies are told about you and your child by your LEA what would you say? oh thats ok i dont mind? carry on it fine?
ReplyDeleteThe more comments I read from Mr Williams the more I think that;
ReplyDeleteA) Some parents are not suitable to home educate
B) Monitoring home education is justified.
How many Mr Williams's do you think there are involved in home education?
DeleteI've met quite a number and...that number is rising.
LEA officers told lies about us and our son cheshire cat you agree with any LEA telling lies? have you not brought up your children to tell and uphold the truth?
ReplyDeleteim up for monitoring so long as lies are not told by those doing the monitoring
you agree with Webb that LEA officers never lie about a family?
Makes me wonder how the hell you'd ever know if someone is lying..you obviously don't have sufficient literacy skills to comprehend definition of certain key words and phrases in either written or spoken English.
DeleteI never mentioned lies. Of course I don't agree with LAs, or anybody for that matter, telling lies. My children have been brought up to tell the truth.
ReplyDeleteMy issue is your with your inane rantings. A lot of your time seems to revolve around trying to insult Simon Webb and your LA. Your postings are bad to the point of being unreadable. If this is the standard of education you are giving your son then my points A and B above still stand.
'possibly because such abusive attacks on individuals and groups would not be tolerated elsewhere,'
ReplyDeleteYes, this is a tricky question. I am opposed to censoring what people say here and the result is that some will cross the line into rudeness or plain insanity. On lists like HE-UK, those who disagree too much are banned. I do not want to get into that position here, where I am preventing some individuals from expressing their views. if anybody is offended by the views expressed here, there are a number of censored forums and lists, where they will not be exposed to such extreme views.
Simon.
but LA's have told lies about us Chershire Cat that is the problem! a lie told by an LEA officer can cause a great deal of harm to a family something can be wrote down about you which you only find out about later but by then much harm has been done!
ReplyDeleteHampshire LEA tell lies then attempt to cover it up! and you want these people who lie and belive there can get away with it to monitor home education. remember these very officers are paid buy us the tax payer what action should be taken to stop LEA from telling lies? Webb as far as i know does not belive that lEA officers tell lies? does simmone belive this to?
it is not insane to point out that LEA officers tell lies
as for insults Webb does plenty of that to us and others!
if you belive the standard of education we give our son is not good enough you have a duty (after all every child matters) like webb does to report us to Hampshire LEA you want there number?
Those 'lies' are deliberate...they're there so as you can 'home educate' your child. The fact is you were pretty determined to HE and their resources way overstretched, they had to be seen to act. You got what you wanted.
DeleteI do not wish to phone your LA so do not require the number.
ReplyDeleteMy post did not mention insane. The word was inane meaning lacking significance, meaning, or point,i.e. your last and previous posts.
it is not insignficant that LEA tell lies? lies told by an LEA cause a family harm. can you not see the harm that can be caused to a family when LEA officers tell lies? These LEA officers belive there can get away with telling lies this is what needs to be looked into.
ReplyDeleteanswer this question if a lie was told about you or your children by your lEA but you only find out about it later what would you say and do? would you be like Webb who says it dont matter it does not mean anything?
it is your duty to report any parent who you belive is not home educating a child.
"it is your duty to report any parent who you belive is not home educating a child."
ReplyDeleteThere are many hundreds of thousands of parents who are not home educating a child. I just dont have the time to report them.
i see your unable to answer the question about what you would do if a lie was told about you or your child by your LEA i take it you would do nothing? and say liek Webb does that it does not matter?
ReplyDeletethere are children who are not being given an education but if you belive you know of a child who is not geting an education you have a duty to report them to there LEA? Webb belives this of us but wont do his duty and report us. yet claims to care about children not getting an education.
"if anybody is offended by the views expressed here, there are a number of censored forums and lists, where they will not be exposed to such extreme views."
ReplyDeleteA good point, though I can see why support lists might take a different approach. If they become too aggressive and people feel unable to post as a result, they lose a potential source of support - but this isn't really an issue on a blog.
"There are many hundreds of thousands of parents who are not home educating a child. I just dont have the time to report them."
ReplyDeleteDo you mean because they send them to school, or do you really think there are many hundreds of thousands of HE parents who are not home educating a child? The first possibility seems irrelevant and the second impossible!
How odd.
ReplyDeleteMr Williams said "it is your duty to report any parent who you belive is not home educating a child."
ReplyDeleteI was simply pointing out that every parent who sends their child to school is not home educating a child.
i.e. taking the piss.
ReplyDeleteIt is your duty to report any parent who you belive is not home educating a child or is not giving it a suitable full time education.
ReplyDeleteWebb often claims to know of such children but will not report them to there LA.
OK Mr Williams, if that's the way you want it...
ReplyDeleteyou put your address up and we'll see what we can do.
You don't need his address to report him. Why would you ask people to publish private information on the internet? You know his LA, and his LA know him.
ReplyDeleteTo prove just how stupid they can be..
Delete'Why would you ask people to publish private information on the internet?'
ReplyDeleteMr Williams has gone to great lengths to ensure that everybody knows his personal details. He actively encourages people to notify his local authority of their concerns. Here is a blog post which he allowed to publicise his address, which is 19 Rack Close, Alton.
http://www.brianmicklethwait.com/education/archives/001760.htm
Anybody wishing to report Mr Williams, though, must be quick! His son's compulsory education will be ending soon.
Simon.
let us know what progress you make with HCC over your belief our son is not geting a suitable education. i let you know if we get any letters from them not heard any thing from the fool at the LEA since i asked him how much of tax payers money he gets paid each week.
ReplyDeleteforgot to tell you Peter become a National Chess Master of the English chess federation titled awarded on the 3rd of March 2012 im sure your very pleased he has done this Webb are you going to congrat Peter?
ReplyDeleteDoes Peter still speak like a computer chess programme?
DeleteEver hear of Autism or Aspergers?
In the real world...I doubt if anyone cares that much.
ReplyDeleteMr Williams is nothing more than an online freak.
"Mr Williams has gone to great lengths to ensure that everybody knows his personal details."
ReplyDeleteThat's irrelevant. The question was still unnecessary.
Let's face it, the abuse that Mr Williams dishes out is irrelevant and unnecessary. Don't you think that he comes across as quite a nasty, ignorant type of person?
ReplyDeleteYes, but two wrongs do not a right make... sinking to their level... responding similarly causes entrenchment and spiralling aggression... etc, etc...
DeletePerhaps you're reading far too much into it.
DeleteBut all in all, a good impression of Yoda.
Deletein th real world most people dont care! Webb comes across as ignornant and as an arse licking supporter of all LEA,s
ReplyDeleteActually Mr Williams, he doesn't. It's all been quite the opposite.
DeleteIn order to understand some of the subtle nuances that underpin articles in this blog, you need a higher level of literacy and comprehension skills than you possess. There are many hints and suggestions that you haven't understood at all.
However, the discussion and quite heated debate has been continuing for quite a while, you've been blissfully unaware and blindly oblivious to more than 99% of it.
in the real world people dont care about home educators there want money spent on state schools! Webb is an arse licking ignornant supporter of LEA,s
ReplyDeleteWebb daughter talks like a computer programme to and she is an arse licking card carrying member of the Labour party.
ReplyDeletewow, personal abuse, always classy.
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