Sunday 2 September 2012

Dramatic news about home educated children




Over on Mumsnet, the most popular British parenting forum with five million hits a month, a well known home educator has made some pretty dramatic claims about the academic attainment of home educated children in this country. Her claims are specific, unambiguous and clear. She says that hundreds of home educated children known to her have obtained places at top British universities without taking GCSEs or A Levels and without studying at the Open University;



‘these young people (who played computer games all day if they wanted, and had no formal work, and nothing most of you would recognise as educational, remember)’



Among the universities that these home educated children who did no formal work, nor anything most people would regard as educational, went to were Oxford, Cambridge, Edinburgh and the London School of Economics. They studied things like mathematics,  medicine, veterinary science and classics.

Now these are startling claims and,  if true, nobody would be more delighted than me. I am always excited to hear of home educated children getting on in this way. I have emailed the woman directly to ask for details of all this, but she has not replied. I am putting the thing up here in order to ask readers if they know about any of this. If there are hundreds of such cases, then I am guessing that some at least must be well known to others. last year I contacted the universities mentioned above and asked about this very question. Not one had given an offer to a young person without any formal qualifications in the last two years. Competition for places at medical school and to study to be a vet is so ferocious that every year teenagers with four or five As at A Level are routinely turned away.  Would a university really offer a place to study mathematics to a young person without even a GCSE in the subject?

I am not of course asking for the names of the young people concerned. It would be enough to know the name of the university, so that I could find out more about the process for applying if young people have no qualifications at all. I think that this would be a great help to others who were hoping to follow this route to admission. I was very surprised to see Edinburgh mentioned, because their one, inflexible rule is that anybody applying to them must have at least a GCSE in a foreign language. They make no exceptions at all to this and it is hard to see how you could manage that with ‘no formal work and nothing most of you would recognise as educational’.

It is certainly true that some autonomously home educated children get places at university. Janet Ford’s son managed this, as did Shena Deuchar’s daughter. However, one took GCSEs at twelve and the other studied with the Open University, so these are not the sort of people that we are looking at here. I hope that readers will be able to shed some light on this, because if this is not true, then it means that a deliberate attempt has been made to mislead other parents on the biggest parenting site in the country. This would, to say the least of it, be unfortunate. I might mention that my attention was drawn to this by a friend of mine who is a teacher. Her feeling was that the whole thing is a complete nonsense and that it is all made up. I am open minded for now, but would certainly like a few details before I make up my mind.

63 comments:

  1. I've looked and can't find this thread. Do you know where I can find it?

    ReplyDelete
  2. I have no idea about the persons above but I do want to clarify some thing about Edinburgh - I do know one HE girl this year ( did 5 GCSEs (I think) at home, the college for A levels) who was initially refused because of the no MFL rule but who appealed about that and got an offer because of the circumstances. So on that point at least a uni can be moved!

    ON the others though it doesn't sound very likely - everyone whom I have heard of has either got some sort of traditional qualifications - or gone via an access course or perhaps a foundation course. I can't find the thread on Mumsnet but I suppose it is possible that the people concerned did go the Foundation course route ??

    ReplyDelete
  3. Just found the thread, but if I ma reading it properly it implies these young people did actually go through FE colleges - so not actually no qualifications?

    ReplyDelete
  4. What is the thread called, Julie?

    ReplyDelete
  5. Thanks Julie for the bit about Edinburgh. I am glad to hear that they were flexible in this case. There are actually a number of threads on Mumsnet about the university thing. Here is the one which I quoted:

    http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/education/a1505880-Who-do-I-contact-regard-Home-Educated-child-to-raise-concerns


    The suggestion here is that no academic work at all needed to be done to get into Russell group universities. Here is another one with the same person making similar claims:

    http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/home_ed/a1475629-Home-schooling-instead-of-secondary

    Here is another, earlier, thread and in this one she does talk about A Levels and FE colleges.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Simon, I see this:

    'My children are not the only ones. I know literally hundreds of autonomously home educated young people in real life now. Every single one of them is doing really well in employment/self employment/FE college/University, there isn't a NEET amongst them. Not one.

    The universities these young people (who played computer games all day if they wanted, and had no formal work, and nothing most of you would recognise as educational, remember) are at Unis such as Edinburgh, Birmingham, Oxford, Cambridge, Leicester, Bristol, Warwick LSE etc etc.
    They are doing courses as varied as Law, Sociology and Social Policy, Classics, Art, Music, economics, IT, Medicine, Psychology and Veterinary Science.'

    But I don't see where she has said they got into those unis without ANY formal qualifications. I don't see anywhere she has said this (quote from your blog post)

    'She says that hundreds of home educated children known to her have obtained places at top British universities without taking GCSEs or A Levels and without studying at the Open University'

    I agree that there is some obfuscation going on. It's possible that some people might be misled into believing that the 100s she knows who are all doing well did so without going to FE's, 6th Forms or Access courses between being autonomously HE'd and Uni.

    I think that her main point is to not worry about AE'd children. The post is in response to someone who is considering reporting a family to Social Services because she doesn't see what she expected to see in terms of formal study. Julienoshoes has gone a bit over the top in defence of AE and, in the process and does seem to have given the impression that the universities accept applications from people with no evidence of the ability to study at F or HE, which is quite wrong. They don't.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Ahhh....that explains it.
      julienoshoes is Julie Bunker, I'm not in the least bit surprised to find that she's involved in bullshit, she always was.

      Delete
  7. The other thread has this:

    'Most of the hundreds of home educated young people I know have been autonomous/informal learners, directing their own learning, which their parents facilitate. I know of youngsters getting to Cambridge/Oxford and all of the other Universities this way, doing subjects such as Law, Classics, Veterinary Science, Medicine, Physics, Engineering, Nursing, Sociology and Social Policy, Art, Music and Psychology -and that's just from a few straight off the top of my head!'

    The key phrase is 'directed their own learning'. Yes, well, that's an interesting notion, isn't it? It doesn't mean, 'did not sit any exams'.

    BTW, my son claims to have directed his own learning through his IGCSEs. He didn't. I did. But it's nice that he thinks it was him! :-)

    ReplyDelete
  8. 'But I don't see where she has said they got into those unis without ANY formal qualifications. I don't see anywhere she has said this (quote from your blog post)

    'She says that hundreds of home educated children known to her have obtained places at top British universities without taking GCSEs or A Levels and without studying at the Open University''

    Well now if you do no formal work and nothing that most people would recognise as being educational, then I think that pretty much rules out GCSEs, A Levels and OU. After all, most people would regard those things as entailing formal work and recognise them as being educational.


    'BTW, my son claims to have directed his own learning through his IGCSEs. He didn't. I did. But it's nice that he thinks it was him! :-)'

    I can relate to that!



    '

    ReplyDelete
  9. I think the quote needs to be read in context. Julie describes her own children's education as having no educational structure or formal work *until* they started OU courses and/or FE college. She says, 'totally unstructured living through life, no formal work until they chose to enroll at FE college', for instance. The message is a reply to concerns about school age children, so I read the comment about access to uni without formal work as related to the activities you might expect to see younger children doing (the age of the children mentioned by the OP), which obviously does not rule out formal work towards the end or school age or collage age. Julie makes this clear by describing her own children's routes to university.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yeah we could tell her kids had no educational structure...
      Mainly from the way she withdrew them from school, got into AE, came to meetings, and then her AE kids started bullying others, all because they were different.

      Delete
  10. 'which obviously does not rule out formal work towards the end or school age or collage age. Julie makes this clear by describing her own children's routes to university.'

    There are two problems. First, not all parents reading these comments are going to be able to work out the finer points of the thing. Many will go off with the idea that one can get into university without any qualifications. Secondly, Julie is very vague about whether her children did or did not get into university by this route. She talks of them working at 'Uni level', but elsewhere she explains that two of them have no GCSEs. It is not clear whether they actually got into university at all.

    The big problem is that some parents reading all this will be misled into believing that their children can get on without any formal qualifications and that this will not prove a bar to university. It will. This is important, because millions of people look at Mumsnet and it could lead parents to make bad decisions about their children's future.

    ReplyDelete
  11. Simon said,
    "First, not all parents reading these comments are going to be able to work out the finer points of the thing."

    Possibly, but that's hardly Julie's fault, sometimes people struggle to understand issues. It is a discussion forum with plenty of opportunity to clarify any points. Julie describes their HE during the compulsory school years to explain why the OP may not be seeing much formal education happening in the family they are concerned about, and then goes on to describe her children's later education. I'm not sure how she could have been clearer.

    Simon said,
    "Secondly, Julie is very vague about whether her children did or did not get into university by this route."

    Julie says about her youngest child, "By 16 she had completed an OU starter course, and used that to get into FE college where she got straight distinctions on a BTEC National Diploma-level three qualification. She has just yesterday finished an HND again with straight distinctions, and has an offer to go on to Uni to complete her degree."

    And then goes on to say, "Our other two totally unstructured living through life, no formal work until they chose to enroll at FE college are also at Uni, both heading for at least a 2:1, my son intends to go on to do a Masters in Psychology after this."

    That doesn't seem vague to me.

    Simon said,
    "The big problem is that some parents reading all this will be misled into believing that their children can get on without any formal qualifications and that this will not prove a bar to university."

    If they read and understand what Julie has written they would know that it's not always necessary for children to have formal qualifications to get into college which then allows them to gain access to university.

    None of our children had formal qualifications before they were accepted at college. It's possible that this would be a problem at some colleges, but most offer level 1 courses so at worse it should just mean an extra year or two of study. Fair exchange for 11 years without school in my children's eyes (they all started at level 2).

    Simon said,
    "This is important, because millions of people look at Mumsnet and it could lead parents to make bad decisions about their children's future."

    If they take the word of a stranger on the internet without doing further research about something as important as their child's education they will have problems whether they HE or not!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I wouldn't believe a word she says...from experience I know that she's economical with the truth at best, at it's worst. Sheer fabrication.

      Delete
    2. Says the anonymous person. If you are going to trash someone's reputation in a public forum, then have the guts to sign your real name, like Simon does when he criticises people.

      Yes, yes, I know I'm anon too, but I'm not adding nasty comments about an individual, which are probably lies anyway, as a result of some private grudge.

      Delete
    3. Lies...nah, she knows it's the truth.

      Delete
  12. A school offering an alternative, non-exam route to university, http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/8401133.stm

    A quote from the school's web site:

    "We accept children from the age of 7 (or children who will be 7 in the course of the school year). The school continues all the way through to age 19, when the majority of our students go on to university. Although not mandatory, almost all graduates from the school in the last five years have gained a university place direct from the school, without formal external examinations. This is a main feature of the school."

    ReplyDelete
  13. I thought I would just add.
    Here in sunny Pembrokeshire the collages are becoming hard towards Home Educated children, Haverfordwest collage this year refused many Home Educated children for GCSE course stating that many can not even read let alone write there own name. Those that do get in the door are having to sit aptitude tests to show they know the basics in reading and writing. When I was told of this by two girls I felt that this is a sad reflection of Home Education.
    I know a couple of family's who believe the myth that children can be high flyers without attending collage or university with no education, makes me wonder about the parents who believe this..

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Many colleges have ALL their candidates sit those aptitude tests. They seem to trust them more than the GCSEs which they have. I have friends whose school educated children had to sit them despite having A*s in Maths and English. It was simply part of the colleges' admissions procedures. They certainly aren't a reflection of anything to do with HE here.

      Other colleges are using them to place people at the correct level BTEC, which is actually helpful to many HE students. It is definitely a mixed picture regarding FE colleges and HE.

      Our local city college is always enthusiastic about HE'd kids. They tend to do very well there. That probably has something to do with the culture of the area as a whole, which is very university-focused. The culture of our HE groups is one where academic achievement is normal and Russel Group unis a common destination (via IGCSEs at home and then FE or 6th Form for A Levels.)

      I suppose if the FE is in an area where few have any academic ambitions and people have bought into the myth that qualifications aren't needed, then the FE will be more likely to have underwhelming candidates. But it could also be that tyou have misunderstood the reasons for the HE children's rejection from the GCSE courses. These are re-sit courses, usually.

      Delete
    2. Amy, your spelling and punctuation is rather appalling. I have to comment, because your comments are about college admissions procedures and home educated children not being able to read or write their own name! A college is a place of education - a collage is a picture made from various materials. So it should follow from your comments, that you were also home educated. Well, actually, you probably weren't, and I was. I can spell! Glass houses...

      Delete
  14. 'If they read and understand what Julie has written they would know that it's not always necessary for children to have formal qualifications to get into college which then allows them to gain access to university.

    None of our children had formal qualifications before they were accepted at college. It's possible that this would be a problem at some colleges, but most offer level 1 courses so at worse it should just mean an extra year or two of study. Fair exchange for 11 years without school in my children's eyes (they all started at level 2).'

    Does this mean that you do know of young people who have got into medical school and so on without having done any formal work until the age of sixteen or so? I am really interested in this. These are quite specific claims, naming universities and academic subjects studied there. The demand for places on veterinary science courses are enormous and if some child has got on a course of this sort without having been to school, I would be very keen to hear about it.

    ReplyDelete
  15. Simon said,
    "Does this mean that you do know of young people who have got into medical school and so on without having done any formal work until the age of sixteen or so? I am really interested in this."

    No, I don't personally know anyone who has got into medical school without formal work until age sixteen, and it's not a claim I've ever made. I personally know several people who have gained access to college at 16 without formal work or qualifications who have then gone on to university.

    Simon said,
    "These are quite specific claims, naming universities and academic subjects studied there."

    Then you should ask the person who made those claims.

    ReplyDelete
  16. 'Simon said,
    "These are quite specific claims, naming universities and academic subjects studied there."

    Then you should ask the person who made those claims.'

    Well of course I did this before posting this piece. I wanted to give her the chance to put her case before I said anything here. She has not replied to my email.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. What did you ask her? She has already said that she knows young people who have done this, which is what you asked me. I doubt she would be able to give you names and other details without permission from the individuals themselves.

      Delete
  17. 'What did you ask her?'

    Here is the email which I sent to Julie Bunker at the weekend:


    Dear Julie,
    I hope that you do not mind me contacting you in this way. I am preparing a new edition of my book, Elective Home Education in the UK and I am hoping to include a section about home educated children who go on to study academic subjects at university. I saw on Mumsnet that you say that you know about home educated children who later studied medicine and veterinary science. This is just the sort of success story that I would be interested in. I know about Chris Ford in Manchester of course, but when you say medicine, I am assuming that you mean medical school?

    I wonder if you could give me a few details about these cases? Not the names of the children concerned, obviously, but perhaps the universities. I could then contact them directly and find out the details. This would be very encouraging for others who wish to follow this path. I understand too that these children were autonomously educated. Did they take GCEs and A levels or did they get into medical school just on an interview? I would be very grateful for any information at all that you could let me have about this. Thanks a lot.

    Simon Webb.


    There seem to me to be two possibilities. Either Julie knows of hundreds of autonomously educated children who have gone on to study academic subjects at universities in the Russell Group and wishes to conceal the details or the whole thing is a complete nonsense and she really knows of no such cases. Remember, the claims are very specific; young people at university studying to be doctors and vets who did no formal work or anything which would appear edcuational during their childhood. I would love to think that this might be true, but fear that it is simply made up. Does anybody know of such cases? We are talking here about Oxford, Cambridge, Edinburgh and the London School of Economics and thinking about subjects like mathematics, medicine, classics and veterinary science.

    I am puzzled, because Julie was free enough with the names of these universities on Mumsnet, but I spoke to the admissions people at a few of them last year about this very topic and none had dealt with cases of this sort.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I hope Julie answers. I don't think that admissions people would necessarilly be able to give you this information. A child "who did no formal work or anything which would appear edcuational during their childhood", could easily take some GCSEs and A Levels as a teenager, in which case, they would look like any other student to admissions staff.

      Delete
    2. Whoops, please excuse the typo!

      Delete
  18. http://www.home-education.org.uk/articles/article-open-university.pdf

    Example of a child who did no structured education until age 15.

     I enrolled on to ‘The Discovering Science’ course. I really enjoyed all my courses with the Open University because they fitted around my lifestyle and I could do the work in my own time. After doing eight courses with the Open University and accruing about half the points of a first degree I went on to a traditional university. I have no GCSEs and no A levels and I got offers from several universities, including an interview at Cambridge and an unconditional offer to study genetics."

    It's a shame the OU route is now effectively closed to younger people.

    ReplyDelete
  19. Another lead to follow?

    http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=2089452

    "You're in the same sort of situation as some home educated students who go straight to college to do A levels and the like. There is no need to have a full cohort of GCSE's as such for most degrees especially if you have a good reason why rather than you just failed them! my friend's son went straight to Cambridge to study physics with his A level results and had no GCSE's whatsoever as he had been home educated previously."

    ReplyDelete
  20. Anyone know anything about the GCSE course at Bexley College that appears to be aimed at 14-16 year old home educated children?

    http://www.adultedbexley.co.uk/SubjectHomeEd1.html

    ReplyDelete
  21. I think it has been around for some years, but of course it is a paid for course which will restrict many.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Simon said,
      "Here is the email which I sent to Julie Bunker at the weekend:"

      Which weekend? The weekend before you wrote this article, or the one in which you wrote it? Did she have a week to reply, or a day or less?

      Delete
  22. 'Which weekend? The weekend before you wrote this article, or the one in which you wrote it? Did she have a week to reply, or a day or less?'

    Does that mean that you know of any autonomously educated young people who did no formal work or anything which appeared to be edcuational and are now studying to be doctors or vets? I am sure that if Julie knows of such people, she will be letting us know soon. Anybody else know of anything like this, or is it just one of those urban myths so beloved of a certain kind of home edcuator?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "'Which weekend? The weekend before you wrote this article, or the one in which you wrote it? Did she have a week to reply, or a day or less?'

      Does that mean that you know of any autonomously educated young people who did no formal work or anything which appeared to be edcuational and are now studying to be doctors or vets?"

      How on earth does this comment logically follow the comment you replied to?

      Delete
  23. 'Does that mean that you know of any autonomously educated young people who did no formal work or anything which appeared to be edcuational and are now studying to be doctors or vets?"

    How on earth does this comment logically follow the comment you replied to?'

    I am trying to find some evidence of the claims made by Julie Bunker and others about autonomously educated young people who went on to become doctors or vets. If you, Julie Bunker or anybody else can provide the slightest information on this, then I would be glad to hear about it. Debates about the precise date that I sent an email do not help to establish whether home educated children have gained places at Oxford, Cambridge, Edinburgh or the London School of Economics. I shall be finalising the chapter on this shortly and if nothing comes to light, then I shall probably just say something along the lines of, 'Another popular misconception among home educators is that it is possible to get into medical school without GCSEs' or something along those lines. If you know anything about this, please tell me.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Simon wrote,
      "Debates about the precise date that I sent an email do not help to establish whether home educated children have gained places at Oxford, Cambridge, Edinburgh or the London School of Economics."

      I don't particularly care about providing information to improve your book. I was attempting to find out if you could reasonably have expected to have received a reply to your email from Julie when you wrote your article. Clearly this was not the case.

      Delete
  24. 'I don't particularly care about providing information to improve your book. I was attempting to find out if you could reasonably have expected to have received a reply to your email from Julie when you wrote your article. Clearly this was not the case.'

    Nor presumably do you care about spreading encouraging news about home education. This is not a question of 'improving' the book, but of letting people know that home education is not a handicap to getting into medical school and so on; if indeed that is the case. Since Julie claimed to have 'personal knowledge' of hundreds of such cases, I would have thought that it should only take five minutes to jot down a few. As the days pass, it becomes increasingly clear that the whole thing is, as I half suspected, a complete nonsense.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Since you have known about Janet Ford's son and Alex Dowty for years, can we assume they are already included in your book? If not, why not? Will you be adding/updating information about them and Shena's daughter in your book?

      Delete
  25. 'Since you have known about Janet Ford's son and Alex Dowty for years, can we assume they are already included in your book? If not, why not? Will you be adding/updating information about them and Shena's daughter in your book?'


    They are both mentioned on page 98. I am also aware that Sheena's daughter gained a place at Exeter to study law, based upon OU points. The very fact that years later you are still citing Alex Dowty and Chris Ford suggests that this is very rare. Chris Ford does not count anyway. Julie talked of young people who did no formal work or anything which would appear to be educational. Chris Ford was sitting GCSEs at twelve! Does anybody actually know of a home educated child who went on to study medicine or become a vet? I don't want to recycle Alex Dowty endlessly through every edition of the book.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Chris Ford was autonomously educated and was doing nothing obviously educational at the age of the children being discussed on Mumsnet (8 and below), so he was a perfectly valid example in that discussion this article is about. I'm not sure why you need particular examples. It's clearly possible for young people to gain GCSEs and A levels as older teens or to take an Access course at 19. Can you tell us why they wouldn't be accepted to study medicine or become a vet? Can you also tell us why the universities you have contacted about this would know that the people accepted onto their courses were autonomously educated before gaining their qualifications? My son's and daughter's universities do not have a clue.

      Delete

  26. 'Chris Ford was autonomously educated and was doing nothing obviously educational at the age of the children being discussed on Mumsnet (8 and below),'

    Good try! In fact the discussion on Mumsnet was on a thread about teenagers aged between 14 and 18. See:

    http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/home_ed/a1517939-Home-educated-14-18-year-olds

    'It's clearly possible for young people to gain GCSEs and A levels as older teens or to take an Access course at 19'

    Absolutely true, but you need to know the attitude of universities like the LSE, Edinburgh and so on to this in order to understand the implausibility of the thing.

    'Can you tell us why they wouldn't be accepted to study medicine or become a vet'

    In a nutshell, because they can have the pick of the bunch and have certain preferences. Can you give me an example of this happening?
    '

    ReplyDelete
  27. Simon wrote,
    "Good try! In fact the discussion on Mumsnet was on a thread about teenagers aged between 14 and 18."

    I can assure you I wasn't 'trying' anything. I referred to the discussion you quote at the beginning of your article (http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/education/a1505880-Who-do-I-contact-regard-Home-Educated-child-to-raise-concerns). That thread is the source and context for the, "no formal work, nor anything most people would regard as educational", phrase that you appeared to be using to rule out Chris Ford. That thread referred to children aged 8 and below.

    Apologies for not realising you had switched to a different thread. However, Julie refers to 'formerly' autonomously educated young people in the new thread, which implies a period of formal education before they move on to university. She specifically mentions that one of her children studied GCSEs and also mentions the OU and other level 3 qualifications. This thread makes no mention 'no formal work'.

    Simon wrote,
    "'It's clearly possible for young people to gain GCSEs and A levels as older teens or to take an Access course at 19'

    Absolutely true, but you need to know the attitude of universities like the LSE, Edinburgh and so on to this in order to understand the implausibility of the thing."

    So you think that a person who gains the usual GCSEs and A Levels after an autonomous education would not be accepted by the LSE, Edinburgh, etc? How would they know that the person had been autonomously educated? When my children applied the universities were only interested in their college reference and the qualifications gained there. Did your daughter have to prove that she had received a structured rather than autonomous home education when she applied to Oxford? Or are you suggesting that autonomously educated young people would not gain the required GCSEs and A Levels, or that universities like LSE never accept alternative qualifications such as access courses?

    ReplyDelete
  28. I gave deatils of various threads which Julie Bunker was on in earlier comments.

    ' So you think that a person who gains the usual GCSEs and A Levels after an autonomous education would not be accepted by the LSE, Edinburgh, etc?'

    No, I said nothing of the kind. You talked of young people taking GCSEs as older teens or doing access courses. These things stand out in applications and there are problems with this approach for some universities. The LSE, to give one example, is a little cautious about young people who did not take their GCSEs and A levels at the same time as everybody else. There are several reasons for this, into which I do not propose to go in detail. A seventeen year-old home edcuated child applying with GCSEs taken before sixteen and a bunch of A levels taken at the same time as everybody else will not stand out particularly. One who took GCSEs at eighteen will. Do you know of any home edcuated children who gained places at the London School of Economics? If so, I shall certainly mention them in my book. As things stand, I shall just repeat what I said on page 98 and then add a few sentences to the effect that no new evidence has emerged

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "I gave deatils of various threads which Julie Bunker was on in earlier comments."

      Which no doubt explains your confusion. No need to apologise...

      Delete
  29. Simon wrote,
    "The LSE, to give one example, is a little cautious about young people who did not take their GCSEs and A levels at the same time as everybody else. There are several reasons for this, into which I do not propose to go in detail."

    Here's a home educator who took their GCSEs and A Levels late and went to Oxford:

    "Taking my GCSEs and A Levels slightly later at Exeter College in Devon, I was extremely fortunate to be able to work hard and secure a place at Oxford."

    http://www.ox.ac.uk/about_the_university/introducing_oxford/an_oxford_education/profiles/andrew_seaton.html

    "He was home-schooled for years (his parents were cleaners, chasing jobs in different parts of the country), but that enabled him to read voraciously and to teach himself. When he finally returned to an educational establishment"

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/higher/is-it-time-for-radical-solutions-when-it-comes-to-getting-poorer-students-into-top-universities-2050047.html

    ReplyDelete
  30. Jackie Burnham's son was autonomously educated and studied politics at York:

    http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200809/cmselect/cmchilsch/memo/elehomed/me4002.htm

    ReplyDelete
  31. Steffan Aquarone was home educated up till 12, though it doesn't say anything about structure, etc, before gaining a degree in Politics and International Relations at the University of Warwick.

    http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/alumni/ouralumni/alumofmonth/previous/saquarone/

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steffan_Aquarone#Education

    ReplyDelete
  32. No help for you, Simon due to lack of detail, but it would be interesting to know more about these families!

    "I know of a family of six children, all totally home-educated, that did not take any exams before 16, and have all gone on to do degrees, and are either now a doctor, midwife, youth worker, self-employed carpenter, self-employed art worker and a musician. It is a fallacy to say that home-educated children are not achieving."

    None of my three home educated children took GCSEs or equivalent as we considered them to be a waste of time. Their ‘attainment’ was no business of the local authority which was never responsible for their education (I was!) Two have graduated from top universities and one is still an undergrad who is already a Microsoft qualified engineer.


    http://www.expressandstar.com/latest/2009/12/19/home-schooled-pupils-fall-off-radar/#ixzz25nFKaaco

    ReplyDelete
  33. Not a Russell Group university and no details of the type of HE, but interesting all the same!

    "Rosie Meek, lecturer in psychology at the University of Southampton, was largely home educated and in her teenage years she had jobs that included working as a farmhand, a gamekeeper's assistant and a groom. She became interested in psychology after enrolling for an introductory distance-learning class, which she followed up with an A level. It was then that she started volunteering for New Bridge, a charity offering support and advice to prisoners. "Little did I realise that this experience would inspire some of my subsequent research," she said. Dr Meek went to read social psychology at the University of Sussex, and said her lecturers "instilled a real passion for applying social psychology to real-world issues". Gaining research experience at the Brighton-based Trust for the Study of Adolescence, Dr Meek returned to Sussex to study for a master's in psychological methods and then a PhD."

    http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/story.asp?storyCode=412870&sectioncode=26

    ReplyDelete
  34. Peter Christopher, home educated and studying Civil Engineering at Bristol, probably not AE.

    http://www.peterjchristopher.me.uk/

    ReplyDelete
  35. Matthew Harding, Lead Design Engineer at Airbus, was home educated, 1983 – 1997. A pioneer!

    http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/matthew-harding/43/1b8/34b

    ReplyDelete
  36. Second generation home education!

    "I and my 5 brothers and sisters were all home educated in the 1970’s and early 80’s in France, and later in the 1980’s and 90’s in the UK. I can’t comment for my sibling’s experiences, but my own were fab. I was reading fluently in 2 languages - french and italian (my dad’s italian) - by the age of 5, and learned english later on (at aged about 8) through a ‘linguaphone’ type prgram. At about the same time (aged 8 or 9) I learned classical latin to add to the church latin I already had, and basic classical greek. Of the lot, English was far and away the hardest, as at least the other four have some kind of set grammatical precedents, albeit with some abstracts, and I challenge any parent or teacher who worries about their toddler/ preschoolers literacy progress, to try learning to speak, write and read the english language themselves, and find out how f*****g hard it is, then rethink! We learnt a lot of literature, history, current affairs, art history…...loads really. My number skills still aren’t tip-top and I don’t get physics at all, but I put that down to natural aptitude rather than negligence on my mum’s part.

    At 16 I sat 13 O’levels and passed all at a’s and b’s. I went to a north london sixth form and then sat 5 A’levels, in English Literature, Modern History, Ancient History, Classics and Philosophy, and passed with straight A’s. Then came a 1st class honours in European Philosophy, while juggling a husband and 2 under fives.
    My five siblings are all educated to graduate standard or beyond, and range from an accounts manager (youngest sister) to an actor (eldest brother). Middle brother is currently studying for his PhD in International Development while juggling being a house husband.
    My own eldest daughter is now 17, and has not long left home to start the BTec art course which will be the entry course to a fine art degree at a dedicated Art College about 30 miles away. She’s been home-edded all her life and came away with 9 GCSEs at grades A to C. So I must be doing something right. DD2 is currently working toward her GCSEs which will be next year. They both have used the Nat Ext College, which have been brill."


    http://thegreenparent.co.uk/forums/viewthread/7634/

    ReplyDelete
  37. "We are home educating parents whose two children have never been to school and are now 14 years and 22 years of age. The eldest has a first class honours degree in Computing and Maths from Imperial College, London and is now in employment commensurate with his qualifications. He was educated 'autonomously' and did not begin any 'structured' maths until he was 15 years old."

    http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200910/cmpublic/childsch/memo/ucm4802.htm

    ReplyDelete
  38. "Rory Auskerry is a professional character voiceover artist, BBC Studio Manager, producer, columnist, podcaster, radio presenter & DJ.

    Originally from the Orkney Islands, Rory studied Media Production (TV and Radio) at the University of Sunderland. He graduated with a First Class BA Honors degree in July 2009...

    Rory was home educated from school starting age until he reached 13 at which point he joined the local grammar school in Kirkwall, Orkney."


    www.roryauskerry.com/about/

    ReplyDelete
  39. Cold_Coffee_93 was home educated (taking 5 GCSEs from home before A levels at college) and has an offer to study law at Oxford this year. No information about the style of HE.

    http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/wiki/Oxford_Applicants_Stalking_Page_2012_Entry

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. And has since been accepted by Hertford!

      Delete
  40. Thanks to all those who have provided these data. This really is helpful.

    Simon.

    ReplyDelete
  41. You're welcome! It's amazing what you can find via Google. The thing that surprised me is that I'd only vaguely heard about one of these people before yesterday. I personally know 5 HE young people who have gone on to university and have heard about several more from friends but none of those appeared during my search.

    ReplyDelete
  42. Larry Page earned a Bachelor of Science degree in Computer Engineering from Michigan University and a
    Masters degree from Stanford University. Almost every article includes a brief statement about the author and a link to
    his site. Essentially, search engines like Google look at user location, browsing history, and the social aspect of what they have done in the past serving the results through SERPs.


    my weblog :: kawable.com
    my site: upperclassincome.com

    ReplyDelete
  43. Wow that was strange. I just wrote an really long comment but after I clicked submit my comment didn't appear. Grrrr... well I'm not writing all that over again.

    Anyways, just wanted to say wonderful blog!

    Also visit my homepage ... vertical jump workouts

    ReplyDelete
  44. Thanks for ones marvelous posting! I really enjoyed reading it, you happen to
    be a great author. I will remember to bookmark your blog and will often
    come back in the future. I want to encourage continue your great writing, have a
    nice evening!

    my web site :: burger King Breakfast hours

    ReplyDelete
  45. Write more, thats all I have to say. Literally, it seems as though you relied on the video to make your point.
    You obviously know what youre talking about, why throw away your intelligence on just posting videos to your blog when
    you could be giving us something enlightening to read?


    Feel free to surf to my web-site how to dunk a basketball

    ReplyDelete
  46. My son (AE til 16, now at 6th form college) has offers from Manchester, Leeds and Lancaster to study Physics next year, and a local friend (also AE til 16 and now in 6th form) has an offer from Cambridge (and others) to do French and Spanish.

    ReplyDelete