Sunday 9 September 2012
More about making money from home education
A couple of days ago I posted about a local authority which is trying to get home educating parents to pay for courses at a further education college and suggested that it was an attempt to make money from home education. Commenting there, somebody has objected to the choice of the witnesses who gave evidence to the select committee on the same grounds; that they stand to make money from home education and should therefore have declared an interest in the proceedings from the start.
Now I must choose my words very carefully here and even so I shall probably be accused of being as stupid or mad as Peter Williams! After all, when I made the completely truthful and wholly unexceptionable remark that the majority of the eight witnesses were not technically home educators, it caused considerable annoyance. Since five of the eight do not have children aged between five and sixteen, that is to say of ‘compulsory school age, I cannot see how anybody can fail to agree that this forms a majority, but we shall let that pass for now. What of the suggestion that has been made to the effect that some also have a financial interest in home education, in particular being paid by local authorities for various services? Did they form a majority of the witnesses? Did five of the eight witnesses have such interests? This is a curious point and one which did not occur to me before the anonymous comments on my last post. Let us consider the matter.
Since the object of this session of the select committee was to examine the support offered by local authorities to home educators, its form and extent, then it is probably true that anybody being paid to provide such support should have stated the fact clearly at the beginning. Such people are partial and we are entitled to weigh their evidence more carefully than those who do not stand to make anything from the recommendations of the committee.
Two of the witnesses, Ann Brown and Hannah Flowers, certainly have no financial interest in home education. What of the others? Julie Barker makes no secret of her work with and for a local authority. She is open about this. So too is Alison Sauer, who with her husband runs a consultancy which charges local authorities for providing services. Fiona Nicholson also runs a consultancy and is pretty active in attending meetings and running a website. I have no idea if she ever receives payment for any of this, but I am pretty sure that she hopes to; she wants to make home education her career. Zena Hodges is a trustee and ‘support adviser’ for the Home Education Centre in South West England. I have a suspicion that she is paid for her services, at any rate the constitution of the Home Education Centre specifically allows for this. It says that the committee members may make payments to themselves, provided that the payment is for skills and experience needed by the group. This is so neatly worded that I would be very surprised indeed if Zena is not receiving money in this way, although I am of course open to correction on this point. Jane Lowe has written a book on home education and is a trustee and also apparently a teacher with the Home Education Advisory Service.
It is fairly plain that at least half and probably the majority of the witnesses called to give evidence to the select committee have or hope in the future to have some financial benefit from their association with a local authority in connection with home education. This was not obvious to the members of the committee and means that they probably did not realise that most of the people apparently speaking objectively about the relationship between home educators and local authorities stood to gain financially in some way if local authorities were advised to provide further services in this field. This does not of course mean that those who gave evidence were on the make! I don’t believe this for a moment. It does mean though that the proceedings were misleading and not transparent.
Another unfortunate circumstance was that the Chair of the select committee, Graham Stuart, has a close relationship with one of the witnesses, Alison Sauer. I do not, I hasten to add, mean a close personal relationship; this thought is almost unbearable! No, I mean that they have for several years been on first name terms and have collaborated in the past on a project which aimed to alter the relationship of home educating parents with local authorities. This was not made clear at the beginning of the session either.
The end result of all this is that anybody watching the evidence being given to the committee on September 5th would not know that the Chair of the select committee and most of the witnesses had various interests in either maintaining or overturning the status quo. This is not a good state of affairs; it does not make for openness.
Gosh, it all sounds very corrupt, the way you are describing things for us, Simon! Perhaps you need to explain precisely how each witness could possibly benefit financially from the improvements in relationships which they recommended.
ReplyDeleteTaking Julie as an example, if sitting exams at exam centres became easier, surely it would simply mean less work for her, which she does unpaid anyway, as an exam organiser for her group?
Jane Lowe? Her suggestion was that LA's take the responsibility for information and first contact with HE families out of the hands of EWOs or School Improvement Teams, or whatever silly option is used now, and into the hands of the Library Service. How would this proposal make her money?
I don't know and have never met any of the others, so perhaps, if you spelled out how each of their proposals would benefit them financially, we might understand why you make the following statement:
'It is fairly plain that at least half and probably the majority of the witnesses called to give evidence to the select committee have or hope in the future to have some financial benefit from their association with a local authority in connection with home education.'
'Gosh, it all sounds very corrupt, the way you are describing things for us, Simon!'
ReplyDeleteI cannot for a moment believe that you are serious about the above comment; it is surely meant to be provocative for the sake of it. If my hobby is cross stitch and I find that I can make a little money from what was previously an unpaid hobby by running evening classes in cross stitch at the local college; do you really think that this would be corrupt?
All the witnesses at one time have undertaken home education as a hobby or voluntary work. The majority of them now make money out of it in various ways and greatly differing amounts. They all also do other things connected with home education for which they do not charge; I do this myself, in addition to the royalties which I have received for the book which I wrote on the subject.
If more money is directed towards local authorities by Westminster, for instance by providing the AWPU for home educated children registered with the local authority, there will be money to pay for people to teach, act as advocates, liase with local authority officers on behalf of parents and so on. This is already happening in a small way and would expand, the more money that was available.
Since the select committee might make recommendations which would either accelerate or impede this process, then it follows that some of those who gave evidence might benefit from the conclusions of the committee. I simply thought that this should have been known both to the general public and also the members of the committee itself. I similarly thought that it would have been a little more open and honest if the relationship between the Chair of the committee and one of the witnesses had been disclosed. Corruption, indeed! It is simply good practice to reveal any possible conflicts of interest at the beginning of a process of this sort.
"The majority of them now make money out of it in various ways and greatly differing amounts"
ReplyDeleteSince you are so concerned that the public know the facts and you seem to know more than most, could you please specify how each individual has made money from HE?
'If more money is directed towards local authorities by Westminster, for instance by providing the AWPU for home educated children registered with the local authority, there will be money to pay for people to teach, act as advocates, liase with local authority officers on behalf of parents and so on.'
ReplyDeleteThere have always been parents who use teachers/tutors, either individually or with groups. I myself did for one or two subjects. How would this alter the situation?
'It is simply good practice to reveal any possible conflicts of interest at the beginning of a process of this sort.'
ReplyDeleteSo, each of the witnesses should have worked out, in advance of speaking, whether they themselves might possibly, at some point in the future, wish to apply for a job which may or may not, at some stage, become available as a result of a possible change in the law, which could potentially follow on from a proposal they were to suggest, which may improve relationships between HE families and the LA, and declare it?
LOL! Sorry, but that just makes me laugh.
'So, each of the witnesses should have worked out, in advance of speaking, whether they themselves might possibly, at some point in the future, wish to apply for a job which may or may not, at some stage, become available as a result of a possible change in the law, which could potentially follow on from a proposal they were to suggest, which may improve relationships between HE families and the LA, and declare it? '
ReplyDeleteWell, that is one possibility. Another would be just to say something along the lines of, 'I used to be a home educator, but these days I teach/work with/arrange things for other people's home educated children'. This would make things clear to others and avoid any misunderstanding.
Candidly, I am surprised that nobody sees anything odd about the Chair of the committee having worked with one of the witnesses on a project with huge imlications for home educators and their relationship with local authorities and then forgetting to mention the fact.
He didn't, though. He announced up front that he was the Chair of the APG on HE. Did you miss that?
ReplyDeleteAs for the others, do you not think that the MPs were given the same information about the witnesses that was on the Parliament website? Or even more? They would have known that. Anyway, most of them are STILL home educating.
I do think you are barking up the wrong tree here, Simon. If there is ONE witness you are especially bothered about then say so, don't make implications about the motives of all of them. It's misleading to your readers.
For the record all the MPs had biographies including photos from us in their pre meeting briefing documents Simon. Maybe you have forgotten but having been a witness yourself three years ago you already know this is routine.
ReplyDeleteMine was certainly very clear about both my consultancy regarding local authorities and home education (which Graham reiterated in a jovial way during proceedings so there could be no confusion), my flexischooling conference and the fact I am currently a home educator.
Ironically most of the work the first panel do should result in less money being made out of home education rather than more. One could say that smartening up the act of LAs would probably do me out of a job! And I am absolutely fine with that.
So I am somewhat confused as to where the issue is??
There is no issue. Over half of the things Simon puts on this blog are making something out of nothing or trying to get a rise from you and others. Ignore it. There is no point trying to make him see sense.
DeleteSimon wrote,
ReplyDelete"Well, that is one possibility. Another would be just to say something along the lines of, 'I used to be a home educator, but these days I teach/work with/arrange things for other people's home educated children'."
This was perfectly clear from the information provided on the web page that includes the link to the recording of the meeting. I have no problem at all with the amount of information provided and the level of access to the meeting itself.
Everything you have said could equally have been said about you when you gave evidence to a previous committee. Except that, funnily enough, you were listed only as a 'former home educating parent'. There was no mention of the money you made from writing newspaper articles about home education. Had you been commissioned to write your book about HE and the planned changes to regulations at that point too?
Just want to point out that every single minute of any work I have done with HCC or SCC on behalf of home educators, and everything I do for my home ed group (including teaching at group) is entirely unpaid. ( Have had some nice gifts for Christmas though - is that corruption?)
ReplyDeleteMostly pointing this out for a certain PW who always thinks the worse!
That depends legally on the nature of the gift, and the reason that the gift was given!
DeleteGlad to hear you not been paid by HCC but do HCC give out other favors to you? they got be a reason HCC like you so much Julie?i be happy to give you an apple! and lots more if you could just open your eyes to to what a poor service HCC give to home educators!
DeleteWhere the new letter HCC send out to home educators? let have a look at it to see if it has changed?
'Glad to hear you not been paid by HCC but do HCC give out other favors to you? they got be a reason HCC like you so much Julie?'
DeleteCould it be because she is polite and coherent?
You actually think that Hampshire County Council gives Julie 'favours' because she helps home educators? What planet are you living on?
Julie crawls sucks up to HCC they give Julie favours i am sure of it she never helped us!
Deletewrong type of home educator.
Where that so called new letter HCC send lets have a look at it to see what it says?
I think I am fairly safe! My vague memory is that (certainly for MPs) there is a lower monetary limit below which gifts don't count ... the last couple of years ,my gifts have included Christmas "hampers"...now 100 home educators each clutching one item of Christmas food completely filled the boot of my car, and were very appreciated, but I don't suppose each persons contribution had huge monetary value.
ReplyDeleteGlad to hear they appreciate your help!
DeleteHow lovely, Julie. When I was a teacher I used to get lots sweet gifts (choclate/bubble bath etc) at Christmas from my pupils. It's very common for students and families to show their appreciation that way.
Deleteyou mad Webb for fully supporting crazy old badman recommendation and your daughter is a card carrying member of the Labour party who tried to destroy home education.
ReplyDeleteWhat did you and your daughter say to old Badman when you meet him?
Zena says, at 1 hr 48 mins in, that she's not paid.
ReplyDeleteThis is definitely one of those occasions when I say something perfectly true and not at all out of the ordinary and then find people getting touchy and defensive. I said two things. First, I said that most, that is to say more than half, of the witnesses at the recent select committee do not have children aged between five and sixteen and are therefore technically no longer home educators. I also remarked that most, that is to say more than half, of the witnesses could be affected financially by any recommendation made by the select committee which was subsequently implemented. These two categories are not wholly overlapping; that is to say those who are no longer home educators are not necessarily those with a possible financial interest in home education.
ReplyDeleteI thought that it would have been better to make it clear if any of the witnesses might benefit or suffer financially from any changes made to the current arrangements for local authorities and their dealings with home educators. I can see that I must give a concrete example. Alison Sauer describes herself as an ‘Education consultant’. Fiona Nicholson, on the other hand, calls herself an ‘Independent home education consultant’. We know that Alison makes money from home education and is sometimes paid by local authorities. In Fiona’s case, we do not know whether her consultancy is a hobby, a charity, a cooperative venture or a fledgling business from which money might in the future be made by providing services connected with home education. The only point I made was that this tends to create a possible conflict of interest. Few people wish to do themselves out of work and if one hopes for payment in the future from statutory bodies, it might very well affect the evidence which one gives to a select committee. Can it really be the case that I am alone in seeing this? Apparently so, at least judging from the comments made here!
I am very confused by one of the comments and perhaps Old Mum can help me out here. I said, ‘Candidly, I am surprised that nobody sees anything odd about the Chair of the committee having worked with one of the witnesses on a project with huge implications for home educators and their relationship with local authorities and then forgetting to mention the fact.’ I was of course alluding to the drafting of new guidelines for local authorities on home education; a project in which both Graham Stuart and Alison Sauer were heavily involved. Old Mum said, ‘He didn't, though. He announced up front that he was the Chair of the APG on HE. ‘ Now have I missed something here? Were the new guidelines being drawn up under the aegis of the APG? This is surprising news, at least to me. Can anybody shed any light on this claim?
Finally, Alison Sauer tells us that the deliberations of the committee might affect her income. She says, 'Ironically most of the work the first panel do should result in less money being made out of home education rather than more. One could say that smartening up the act of LAs would probably do me out of a job' She then goes on to ask, 'So I am somewhat confused as to where the issue is?' Well that is the whole point which I was trying to make; that the evidence given by some witnesses could affect their income in the future.
'Old Mum said, ‘He didn't, though. He announced up front that he was the Chair of the APG on HE. ‘ Now have I missed something here? Were the new guidelines being drawn up under the aegis of the APG?'
ReplyDeleteSorry, no idea. I am no good at picking up on 'allusions'. I assumed that you were trying to say that GS and Fiona should have said they'd worked together. He's in the AP group and I think she's been to meetings, so of course they'd know each other. That is what I meant.
'This is definitely one of those occasions when I say something perfectly true and not at all out of the ordinary and then find people getting touchy and defensive.'
ReplyDeleteI'm not at all touchy and defensive in any way. I'm only interested in the truth of the matter.
If 'the majority' of witnesses stand to benefit financially from the proposals, I'd like to hear details! We are all waiting with baited breath to hear them!
"If 'the majority' of witnesses stand to benefit financially from the proposals, I'd like to hear details! We are all waiting with baited breath to hear them!"
DeleteExactly! You seem to have ignored requests for clarification. As you appear to be 'in the know', Simon, please reveal all and stop being so coy. We want facts, not hints.
Simon wrote,
ReplyDelete"The majority of them now make money out of it in various ways and greatly differing amounts."
You listed 5 people as possibly making money out of HE. You've since been told that 2 of these are not paid and we don't know about 2 others. You really should try to get your facts straight before you write and your own lack of transparency when you gave evidence makes you a hypocrite.
'your own lack of transparency when you gave evidence makes you a hypocrite.'
ReplyDeleteAn odd accusation. I was at pains to make sure that the committee knew both that I was no longer a home educator and that the only reason I was probably there was that I had written a couple of bits for the newspapers on the subject of home education.
Yet according to the official report you are listed as a, 'former home educating parent'. In the current situation, the people you complain about are described far more accurately. You say the committee knew that you had written a couple of bits for the newspapers despite a lack of written evidence to support this. So why have you assumed that the committee are in the dark about the current group of people?
Delete'You seem to have ignored requests for clarification'
ReplyDeleteIt really must be me! Let me have one last crack at this and then I shall leave the matter to rest.
Before the select committee hearing in 2009, at which I gave evidence, one of the witnesses at the recent hearing was touting for work around various local authorities. She was telling them that the law was likely to change and that she would, for a fee, run training sessions and explain the new legal situation to their staff. In short, a change in the law would have been lucrative for this person. Had she been called as a witness, this would have meant that she had a conflict of interest and we would be entitled to weigh her evidence more carefully as a result.
The situation now is not so dramatic as it was in 2009; as far as we know the law is not about to change. Never the less, it is quite possible that more funding will be made available from central government to local authorities for home education and they may assume greater responsibilities than is currently the case. This means that local authorities may wish to liase with or pay consultants who specialise in home education or to form close links with people from home education organisations. So, as an example, unless we know for sure whether or not somebody like Fiona Nicholson is actually running her consultancy as a public service and has no intention of ever charging for her services, we cannot be sure that she was unbiassed in the evidence which she gave. The same applies to several others.
The only point which I have been making is that unles we are perfectly sure that every person who gave evidence is completely disinterested, then we have to exercise a certain amount of caution when considering their stance on the pros and cons of local authority involvement in home education.
But you stated that, "at least half and probably the majority of the witnesses called to give evidence to the select committee have or hope in the future to have some financial benefit from their association with a local authority in connection with home education." Yet you provide no evidence to support this assertion and we have since heard from others that this is unlikely to be accurate.
DeleteSimon wrote,
"The only point which I have been making is that unles we are perfectly sure that every person who gave evidence is completely disinterested"
Nobody is 'completely disinterested'. If someone is discussing support that they could choose to take advantage of they automatically have an interest. The background of all of the panel was given clearly.
Simon
DeleteThis is indicative of what is wrong and corrupt in society. The you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours mentality.
From MPs expenses, to tax evasion and offshore accounts.
They claim that legally and technically they have done nothing wrong, to this end they have a point. But what cannot be argued is that it is morally corrupt. Using and manipulating individuals who are seeking advice to serve their own interests, seeing a business opportunity out of those who arguably at their most vulnerable.
That I find morally abhorrent!!
'Using and manipulating individuals who are seeking advice to serve their own interests, seeing a business opportunity out of those who arguably at their most vulnerable.
DeleteThat I find morally abhorrent!!'
It certainly would be, if it was anywhere near being actually true!
FACTS? Do you have any? Or are you leaping to condemn these witnesses on the basis of Simon's suspicions, which have been shown to be unfounded.
Old mum
DeleteI don't and never have dealt in either speculation or conjecture. The comments made based purely on facts which cannot be disputed.
What is in dispute is the final conclusion. However when a situation where the final conclusion may be open to interpretation, for the purposes of clarity those situations cannot be an acceptable state of affairs!
'The comments made based purely on facts which cannot be disputed'
DeleteWell, let's hear them, then!
Which specific witnesses are likely to benefit financially from the proposals they made at the hearing and HOW? This is what we're all waiting to know. Why are you so coy about this? When you say that something is 'morally abhorrent' (the strongest possible language!) give us the chance to agree or disagree with you. Tell us what the FACTS are.
'However when a situation where the final conclusion may be open to interpretation, for the purposes of clarity those situations cannot be an acceptable state of affairs!'
What on earth does that sentence mean? Is it a translation from another language? Seriously, I have no idea.
Hello, Alison! Fancy seeing you here.
ReplyDelete' You say the committee knew that you had written a couple of bits for the newspapers despite a lack of written evidence to support this.'
ReplyDeleteAn interesting point! There is written evidence, but it is indirect. In the transcript of the hearing on October 14th 2009, I was giving my views on the idea of a curriculum. Paul Holmes responds, (Q60), 'You have written about that view in the Times Educational Supplement'. This suggests to me that he had read what I sent in before I gave evidence. Either that or I am more famous than I thought!
So, despite the lack of information on the witness list against your name, they clearly had plenty of background information, but this was revealed only by a passing remark in your case. Why then do you assume it would be different this time?
DeleteDid you send in your article as part of your written evidence? Because there is no mention of this in the official report that should include all submissions. The published evidence makes no mention of your article apart from the brief mention by Paul Holmes.
"Before the select committee hearing in 2009, at which I gave evidence, one of the witnesses at the recent hearing was touting for work around various local authorities. She was telling them that the law was likely to change and that she would, for a fee, run training sessions and explain the new legal situation to their staff" I hope you are not referring to me Simon. Because if you are that is an untruth.
ReplyDeleteI trained several Authorities and spoke at the Midlands Conference for LAs in this period and told each and every one of them that the law would probably not change and that if it did it would be subject to judicial review because it conflicted with other parts of law. It is true that we looked in brief at the proposals but only in outline. I also said that if they brought these regulations in I would not be training authorities in such draconian procedures.
Although Mr Badman (amusingly) asked me how much it would cost to train the authorities I never offered to do it.
Hello Anonymous!!! Which Anonymous would you be????
ReplyDeleteFrom the responses by you and others it seems like this article is a prime example of hot air, guesswork and scaremongering!
ReplyDeleteHaven't read all the comments but knowing Julie personally I would bet my bottom dollar (which she hasn't yet extorted from me) the she is not in it for the money and that any comments made to the committee were in honest support of home educators everywhere.
ReplyDeleteDoctors make money (well, at least a salary) out of healthcare - does that nullify either their opinions or their contribution to society?
ReplyDeleteIf you're going to use analogies, at least use one that works.
DeleteExcellent analogy.
DeleteLol please explain why you believe it an "excellent analogy". Am interested to hear this one!
DeleteDo you reckon that any paltry earnings from occasional advisory work will offset the huge financial cost of home educating over the course of several years? Hardly the kind of lucrative work a serious money-grubber would seek.
ReplyDeleteLooking forward to the attendance of many people wearing a name-badge bearing "anonymous":
ReplyDeletehttp://www.sc-education.co.uk/flexischooling-conference/
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