Friday, 3 May 2013
School as a refuge from violence and fear
For many home educating parents, schools are seen as bad places. They are institutions where their children’s special educational needs are not met or where ferocious bullying drives children to the point of suicide; to give just two examples. There is another side to this though. For some home educated children, school is a refuge; the only safe and stable point in their lives and being removed from it can be a disaster which results in great unhappiness or, in extreme cases, injury or death. I am sure that many readers will be familiar with the death of a home educated child in Barking a couple of years ago. Here is the summary of the Serious Case review:
http://www.bardag-lscb.co.uk/Publications/Documents/child-t-executive-summary.pdf
As will be recalled, the mother was very disturbed, argued with everybody and ended up by killing her child, who was probably on the autistic spectrum, by forcing him to drink bleach.
I draw attention to this case not because I think that a lot of home educating parents are likely to harm their children, nor to appeal for better and more intrusive monitoring of home educated children. Rather, I want to remind people that school is sometimes the best thing in a child’s life and that it can be vastly preferable to what is going on at home. I am not a great fan of schools, but I think that home educators sometimes forget how good they can be for children; providing them with a haven of safety and the bare bones of a stable life. Not everybody is cut out to be a home educator and for those who cannot cope with having their children around too much; schools fulfill a vital role, both for parents and children.
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Yes,I will admit that school can be a refuge and that not everyone is cut out to be, or wants to be a home educator. Now, will you admit that school can also be 'a disaster which results in great unhappiness, or extreme cases, injury or death?'
ReplyDeleteWill you also admit that all too often in those cases, schools and the LA's which still have control over many of them are well aware of what is happening and choose not to intervene because admitting the problem might damage their OFSTED ratings or places in league tables.
And perhaps you could concede that there is no outcry about schools when children kill themselves as a result of bullying, or are killed in school playgrounds because youths are running riot when they should be in lessons.
Anne
You're right not to use this case to call for more intrusive monitoring; it was well known to the authorities and highlights the lack of joined-up-thinking and failure to use the powers available.
ReplyDeleteYou're also right to suggest that not everyone is cut out to be a home educator; for some, school is a case of "any port in a storm". That's true in many cases (and most such children are in school - or at least registered in one) although I'm not completely certain that it would have helped here.
However, there is no indication that the decision to home-educate was in any way a philosophical or ideological choice here; although both children "had missed substantial periods of schooling since 2003", the brother, Child R, missed only one day of school in the three weeks leading-up to the death of Child T.
Child T was a SEN case, and the mother was unhappy with provision - but she was also clearly off her rocker, so it's a tragic and messy case. The father was largely absent but allegedly drunk and violently abusive when present, although this is said to have improved.
The issues here are much broader than home education. One could open a can of worms and suggest that perhaps certain ethnic and religious groups are more likely to be associated with harm to children than anything one sees with home education; yet, we don't see much call to do anything about that.
Like Anne I am more than happy to agree that school can be a refuge. I have spoken to a couple of people who experienced school in this way. I myself enjoyed school and my children were free to give it a try at any point (and a couple of them did). I wonder if any research has been carried out looking at the percentages involved?
ReplyDeleteI was brought up in an RC orphanage back between 1948 and 1963. Initially we were taught within the confines of the home and had no respite from the day-to-day sexual,physical and emotional abuse. Finally, the authorities decided that we should be bussed to the local schools and that was the time we had relief from the unwanted attention of nuns and clergy. Although I realized as I got older that the school staff were fully aware of what was going on but said nothing.
ReplyDeleteI can say honestly, that none of this had any bearing on my decision to HE my grandson. My seven children went through the school system and did just fine.
'will you admit that school can also be 'a disaster which results in great unhappiness, or extreme cases, injury or death?'
ReplyDeleteI am not a great fan of schools, having said more than once that I would not trust the average school to look after my cat, never mind my child. However, I am not at all sure about the risk of death!
'And perhaps you could concede that there is no outcry about schools when children kill themselves as a result of bullying, or are killed in school playgrounds because youths are running riot when they should be in lessons. '
I have certainly seen the claim that sixteen children a year kill themselves because of bullying at school. I have never been able to track down the basis for this claim. Inquests seldom venture to record the actual cause of a suicide. What grounds to you have for thinking this happens more than in the very rare and freakish case? As for children killed by youths rampaging around in the playground, I have not heard about this before. Could you give us some statistics for this problem? Most abuse an injury takes place in the home, rather than at school. I have an idea that most suicides of children are connected with family life and not school; that is only a guess. Do you have any figures?
I have no statistics but I can give you one case from local to me, where the inquest result is, frankly, unbelievable. http://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/archive/2012/12/01/Latest+News+%28be_latest+news%29/10083018.Kyle_death_case_____Bad_behaviour_is_not_tolerated____at_Portchester_School/
DeleteAs for bullying at school, I have seen 3 cases where children killed themselves because of it this year.
I'm not saying it's common, any more than you're saying HE abuse is common. But if you can call for tighter controls based on a couple of cases, then so, surely can I.
Anne
I don't understand why you persist in denying that children die as a result of bullying.
Deletehttp://uk.news.yahoo.com/bullying-suicides-parents-call-law-021350207.html#8TpSdIE
'I don't understand why you persist in denying that children die as a result of bullying.'
DeleteI have not denied that it has happened; I am asking for some statistics. For instance, the figure of sixteen suicides a year due to bullying is often cited. I can find no source for this.
When a child suicide takes place, it is usually a combination of factors, rather than being 'caused' by this thing or that. Parents have naturally a vested interest in downplaying the factors which might relate to home life. So while I am sure that bullying may play a part in some deaths, I would like to know how many and to what degree.
So a child who leaves a suicide note blaming bullies at school really meant 'I am not happy at home?'
DeleteWell, that's certainly one way of looking at it.
And schools, obviously, have no vested interest in downplaying the factors that might relate to school life.
Actually, I'm surprised you haven't linked to the BBC news story recently about over-protective parents not giving the children skills to deal with bullying because I'd have thought it'd be right up your street at the moment. After all, heaven forbid that the person doing the bullying, or doing the killing of a child might be the one who was responsible for it.
Anne
'One could open a can of worms and suggest that perhaps certain ethnic and religious groups are more likely to be associated with harm to children than anything one sees with home education; yet, we don't see much call to do anything about that.'
ReplyDeleteQuite possibly true. Social workers tend to back away from cases involving black people or Muslims; or, as in the case of Khyra Ishaq, a combination of the two. This is a very interesting point and has in the past been tied in both with abuse and also autism. Those living in Hampshire might perhaps know that children who had lived in Havant had a very high rate of autism; supposedly for cultural reasons!
I'm looking forward to a blog post entitled,
ReplyDeleteHome: a refuge from violence and fear at school.
'I'm looking forward to a blog post entitled,
ReplyDeleteHome: a refuge from violence and fear at school.'
The problem with such a post would be that the great majority of both physical and sexual abuse of children takes place in their home, rather than at school. I do not deny that it happens from time to time that children are abused in a school setting; but this tends to be rare. The people most likely to harm or even kill a child, are not her teachers or fellow pupils, but those adults with whom she lives.
"the great majority of both physical and sexual abuse of children takes place in their home, rather than at school."
DeleteAre you sure about this? Whilst this may be true of physical abuse, I don't think it's the case with sexual abuse. According to this study, 'Measuring child maltreatment in the United Kingdom: A study of the prevalence of child abuse and neglect',
"One percent of children had been sexually abused with contact by parents or carers (less than 1% reported non-contact abuse with parents or carers). Two percent said that they had experienced sexual behavior involving contact, and 1% involving non-contact, by a relative other than their parent or carer. Eight percent were sexually abused involving contact, and 3% involving non-contact, by someone unrelated but known to them. Two percent said that they had experienced sexual contact abuse, and 2% sexual non-contact abuse, with an adult stranger or someone they had just met".
They conclude that whilst physical and emotional abuse is more common in the home (78%), sexual abuse is more common outside the home.
'They conclude that whilst physical and emotional abuse is more common in the home (78%), sexual abuse is more common outside the home.'
DeleteThis is quite an interesting point. Unfortunately, the net is sometimes cast so wide when defining 'sexual abuse', that the figures are distorted. To give an example of this, a few years ago a charity was claiming that almost half of all girls had been sexually abused. This was a surprising assertion and was caused by including all those girls who had had an adult expose himself to them in parks and other places. This sort of thing can skew the figures away from the home and towards other locations.
I would still call that sexual abuse. But in this instance, cases of abuse with and without physical contact are clearly separated. Clearly exposure would count as a non-contact sexual abuse. They are not claiming that half, or any where near a half, suffered sexual abuse either. Their total percentage is 16%.
Delete'I do not deny that it happens from time to time that children are abused in a school setting; but this tends to be rare.'
ReplyDeleteIndeed. Possibly almost as rare as home educated children being abused by their parents.
Simon said,
ReplyDelete"I have certainly seen the claim that sixteen children a year kill themselves because of bullying at school. I have never been able to track down the basis for this claim."
http://archive.beatbullying.org/dox/resources/statistics.html
"It is estimated that at least 20 children and adolescents a year commit suicide because of being bullied – this is a conservative estimate based on documented cases known to us. It is likely that the actual number is higher, perhaps much higher. (These figures also do not take into account the numbers of young people who attempt suicide but survive.)"
'"It is estimated that at least 20 children and adolescents a year commit suicide because of being bullied – this is a conservative estimate based on documented cases known to us. It is likely that the actual number is higher, perhaps much higher. (These figures also do not take into account the numbers of young people who attempt suicide but survive.)"'
ReplyDeleteYes, I have of course seen this before. There are two problems. First, we are not told by whom it has been estimated. Nor are we given the data used. Secondly, as somebody above remarked, almost 80% of emotional abuse of children takes place not at school but in the home. We need to know what we mean by bullying; are we talking about bullying at home or at school? Then we need to know how this figure of twenty suicides a year was reached. As I said, I have never been able to track down the source of these claims.
"First, we are not told by whom it has been estimated."
DeleteYou are told that the number is based on documented cases known to them. Maybe more details are available elsewhere on the site or you could ask.
'It is estimated that at least 20 children and adolescents a year commit suicide because of being bullied – this is a conservative estimate based on documented cases known to us. It is likely that the actual number is higher, perhaps much higher. (These figures also do not take into account the numbers of young people who attempt suicide but survive.)"
ReplyDeleteIf this figure is true and if we accept that most bullying of children takes place in the home, rather than at school, then it would be an indictment of family life in this country! I am very dubious though.
'If this figure is true and if we accept that most bullying of children takes place in the home, rather than at school, then it would be an indictment of family life in this country!'
DeleteWhat are you talking about?
How is it possible for you to read this:
Delete'In the vast majority of cases, this experience had taken place at school.'
and then write this?:
'If this figure is true and if we accept that most bullying of children takes place in the home, rather than at school, then it would be an indictment of family life in this country! I am very dubious though.'
'How is it possible for you to read this:
Delete'In the vast majority of cases, this experience had taken place at school.'
and then write this?:
'If this figure is true and if we accept that most bullying of children takes place in the home, rather than at school, then it would be an indictment of family life in this country! I am very dubious though.'
Very easily. The vast majority of cases of children being bullied by other children will of course take place at school. The cases of children being bullied by adults, emotional abuse and so on, mainly take place at home; in around 80% of cases according to this survey.
There's a bullying by adults category? I thought that was emotional and verbal abuse.
Delete'There's a bullying by adults category?'
DeleteNo, there isn't; which is pretty much my point. If you define bullying as something done by other children, then you will see it as a school problem. Look at it in a wider sense and it is more associated with the home.
"If this figure is true and if we accept that most bullying of children takes place in the home"
ReplyDeleteWhy do you think most bullying happens in the home? In the study I mentioned earlier, 90% of respondents and reported that they came from a warm and loving family background. Maltreatment (both intra and extrafamilial) was experienced by 16% of the sample. However, when asked about bullying by other children,
"Respondents were asked whether they were bullied, discriminated against, or made to feel different, like an outsider by other children. In total, 42% reported having experienced at least one of these. Three in 10 said they had been bullied, 1 in 8 had been made to feel different like an outsider, and over 1 in 20 reported that they had experienced discrimination. In the vast majority of cases, this experience had taken place at school. Over a third of all respondents reported that they had been subjected to name calling, insults, and verbal abuse, 86% of those experiencing bullying or discrimination (see Table 7). Around 4 in 10 (18% of all young people) said that they had been deliberately embarrassed and humiliated by other children. Around a third in each case had been lied about or subjected to physical bullying (14% of all respondents). Three in 10 had been ignored (12% of all young people), and just under a quarter had been threatened with violence (9%)."
ReplyDelete"Respondents were asked whether they were bullied, discriminated against, or made to feel different, like an outsider by other children.'
This is a definition which makes school the problem. If you define bullying as something being done by other children, then because most children are at school; that is where it is likely to happen. If, on the other hand, you define bullying so that adults are included, then it becomes the emotional abuse which is more prevalent in the home.
'You are told that the number is based on documented cases known to them. Maybe more details are available elsewhere on the site or you could ask.'
ReplyDeleteI have asked and not received a satisfactory answer. I have not even been able to establish whether they are referring to one particular year or if this is a rolling programme of scanning newspapers for reports. Let alone, which papers they read and things like that.
Simon wrote,
ReplyDelete"Very easily. The vast majority of cases of children being bullied by other children will of course take place at school. The cases of children being bullied by adults, emotional abuse and so on, mainly take place at home; in around 80% of cases according to this survey."
But the 42% who said they were bullied by children was a percentage of the entire study sample whilst the (nearly) 80% is a percentage of a sub-population (those who were abused by adults), so how can you conclude that the second group is larger than the first? As it happens, it was 78% of 16%, so if we look at the entire study sample, 42% were bullied by other children (the vast majority at school), compared to 12.5% who were abused at home by adults.
'But the 42% who said they were bullied by children was a percentage of the entire study sample whilst the (nearly) 80% is a percentage of a sub-population (those who were abused by adults), so how can you conclude that the second group is larger than the first? As it happens, it was 78% of 16%, so if we look at the entire study sample, 42% were bullied by other children (the vast majority at school), compared to 12.5% who were abused at home by adults.'
DeleteYes, different definitions were used and different questions asked.
So what figures are you referring to when you claim that bullying and abuse at home is more prevalent than bullying and abuse at school?
Delete'So what figures are you referring to when you claim that bullying and abuse at home is more prevalent than bullying and abuse at school?'
DeleteYou might like to ask yourself what you mean by bullying. A common definition is using strength or force to harm or intimidate somebody weaker. What about hitting somebody weaker than you because you do not like what the person is saying or doing; trying to use your superior physical strength to intimidate the person into submission? Is this bullying? Most people would say so. But it's alright when you're doing it to children, if you are an adult, right?
Recently surveys on this have found that between 70% and 80% of parents in this country admit to having struck their children in order to intimidate them in this way. This means that roughly four children out of five in this country have been victims of bullying by adults; most frequently in their own home.
We have looked at the supposed figure of twenty suicides a year from bullying, maybe we should think now about the hundred children each year who are killed or left with disabilities after being hit by their parents or carers...
You have not provided enough information to counter the evidence of the study mentioned earlier in which 90% of respondents reported that they came from a warm and loving family background. Maltreatment (both intra and extrafamilial) was experienced by 16% of the sample (12.5% in the family) and 42% experienced bullying by children. These are directly comparable because they are figures from the same sample group - a random sample of 2869 young people aged 18-24 interviewed face to face by trained interviewers. Do you have figures for bullying by children for the same sample group you mention above? Do you have titles or links for the surveys so we can assess the evidence ourselves?
Delete'You have not provided enough information to counter the evidence of the study mentioned earlier in which 90% of respondents reported that they came from a warm and loving family background. '
DeleteI think it is something like the Stockholm Syndrome. I shall be posting about this today.
Does it honestly matter who has the most cases or how you define bullying? Or is what matters that all of us keep an eye out for all children, whether they are in school or not because we all agree that one case is one case too many?
ReplyDeleteUltimately the responsibility lies with the person doing the abusing or bullying or whatever you choose to call it. They make a choice to do it, whether that is because of mental health issues or what it isn't fashionable to refer to as evil.
Simon clearly thinks that more monitoring is the answer. I don't. We aren't going to agree on that no matter how much we argue and his definition of bullying and abuse and mine probably differ too so there isn't going to be any common ground for us to debate.
I don't see how a visit once a year is going to change things, because what I notice from all the serious case reviews is that authorities knew about the families. These weren't 'invisible' children who no one knew about until they were dead or in serious distress. These were known and known to have problems and for whatever reason the mechanisms that were supposed to work, didn't. It could be as simple as some poor soul who was prioritising frantically and that half a dozen worse cases were prevented which we never heard about.
I think I remember Simon saying that quite often his role was as a mediator between family and 'professionals.' (Sorry if I've got you confused with someone else.) Maybe this is what is needed when relationships between families and social services/LA's break down. Someone who will listen to both sides and see if there is any common ground without emotion getting in the way.
Atb
Anne
want to remind people that school is sometimes the best thing in a child’s life and that it can be vastly preferable to what is going on at home.
ReplyDeleteIf that's the case then maybe something should be done about schools off rolling kids who need help instead of helping them. The government have said in the past that this is common practice.
As for bullying Simon no matter how you try & twist it, the statistics you've been given are going to be the same.
Kids commit suicide because of bullying at school & it is getting more common & the kids are getting younger http://egosentrik.com/2013/02/17/9-year-old-commits-suicide-in-the-uk/
Yes I know I'm late to the party.
Simon wrote:
ReplyDelete"Most abuse an injury takes place in the home, rather than at school. I have an idea that most suicides of children are connected with family life and not school; that is only a guess."
Before using any such data to infer that home is a more dangerous place than school, you should take care to remember that children spend only about 15% of their time in schools.
Simon said,
ReplyDelete"For instance, the figure of sixteen suicides a year due to bullying is often cited. I can find no source for this."
This page, http://www.bullyonline.org/stress/suicide.htm, mentions the 16 per year figure. It links to this list of cases immediately after, http://www.bullyonline.org/schoolbully/cases.htm.