Those parents who choose not to send their children to school often, like the present writer, neither need nor want any support from their local authority. Nobody knows what percentage of home educators fall into this category. Certainly, on the EO and HE-UK message boards, such parents seem to be a minority. The great majority of those posting appear to have withdrawn their children from school for various reasons. Chief among these reasons seem to be bullying and the inability of schools to cater adequately for various special educational needs.
Those who deregister their children from schools are, it appears to me, a different case from parents who never send them in the first place. They actually wanted their children to go to school and were problems not to arise would presumably be happy for their children to stay there until they were at least sixteen, taking GCSEs like everybody else. When parents like this take their children out of school, they often want them to continue learning in the same way as they have previously been doing at school.
One of the more encouraging and positive aspects of the Badman review was that he recommended local authorities to offer more support and advice to home educating parents, including access to examinations. It is by no means uncommon to see posts from parents who have deregistered their children and are appealing for help and support from other home educating parents. The usual advice is, "Do nothing! Avoid the LA! Leave your child to do nothing for months! Refuse any offer of visits!" This is the so-called "deschooling" process.
I strongly suspect that many parents who take their children out of school due to problems would be grateful for support from their local authority. In many cases they want their children to continue with their studies and ultimately take their GCSEs. The standard local authority response is not very helpful. "You have made your bed," they say in effect, "Now lay in it! Do not expect us to pay for examinations or help you at all!"
I think that a good many parents who take their children from school would appreciate a programme of support and help from LAs. At the very least, it should be on offer for those who do want it. It is to be hoped that this part of the Badman report at least is implemented.
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Yes, I agree - in our local group it is families who have withdrawn their children later who seem to be most in need of support- presumably because the whole examination issue (especially lack of nearby exam centres) takes time to get ones mind around and if you withdraw a 15 year old they don't have that luxury.
ReplyDeleteGraham Badman made no mention of a legal requiremnet for government to make it a law that fundinging/support be given to Home educators. one or 2 LEA give a very token amount of Funding after you gone though a number of hoops but most do not and never will! as Simon said You have made your bed," they say in effect, "Now lay in it! Do not expect us to pay for examinations or help you at all!" but od course they do not like when home educators say fine our bed so F off!
ReplyDeleteWhy Did uncle Badman not make it a legal requiremnet of LEA to give funding support? because if he had you could sue them if they did not give this support!
Its what i call see that pig is it flying!
The FOI request which has obtained the numerical count of the responses to the original six question survey mostly answered by home educators confirms that whatever home educators think about the rest of Badman's report, many do want more support. 58% wanted changes to support offered - in particular 20.8% exam access, 28,7% general financial help/resources, 11.3% suggested tax relief. If we get the Badman recommendations implemented we may still not get any of these by right (annoying to some) but what is obvious is that home educators can't access the possibility of any of them if the LAs don't know about them or the families reject all contact!
ReplyDeleteIt is a parents legal right to not have any contact with LA or you saying parents should be forced? like Badman wants?
ReplyDeleteWith out a legal requirement to enforce his recommendations for support councils will not do it and they also get out of any legal action being taken against them over not giveing funding to parents who home educate pigs will fly first any way there is not the money there to spend on home educators most councils are very short of money so will not want to waste it on us!
Those home educators that want the limited support given no full well how to contact the council via web or phone or letter and when child leaves school letter is forwarded to LEA and you get a letter from them.you also have contact point database which LEA use which gives name address birth place of education for all children so lEA know where the children are!
"One of the more encouraging and positive aspects of the Badman review was that he recommended local authorities to offer more support and advice to home educating parents, including access to examinations."
ReplyDeleteShame (if you want it) that this is the part of the report the government have ignored.
yes this is the one bit that has been ignored your quite right! why has that bit been ignored simom?
ReplyDeleteI said it was an encouraging aspect of the report, not a racing certainty! Why has the bit about support for home educators been ignored by the governement? Wow, this is a tough one. Oh wait a minute. Could it be that the home education organisations in this country have rejected the Badman report in its entirety, sworn to oppose it at every touch and turn, are threatening a campaign of civil disobedience and refuse to have any meaningful dialogue with the government about its implementation? Thus leaving the government free to enforce the bits that they want. In short, another own goal by home educators.
ReplyDeleteNo that is not correct loads of meaningful dialogue has been had with this fag end government by home educators but we are ignored unless we agree with them like you do Simon how come you get to met Badman but many other home educators do not and many wrote asking to meet him but he just ignored them.
ReplyDeleteIt wont be enforced not enough money to do it councils are very short of money after scoring some own goals of their own by bad investment of the council tax payers money. This government has also scored a number of own goals and will lose at the next election by a large number of seats watch the voter take his revenge on Labour some big names will be going and hopfully Ed Balls will or will he hang on?
Err, simon, The acceptance of the monitoring and 'safeguarding' aspects of Badman's report were accepted by government and the 'consultation' about the planned changes launched on the same day the Badman report was published (11th June). How is it possible that this selective acceptance of the Badman's report by government was a response to it's reception by home education organisations?
ReplyDeleteExceedingly poor grammar!
ReplyDeleteIt was not really a selective response, Sharon. The DCSF immediately agreed to the proposals for monitoring and inspection. This was because this was seen as being urgent. In the following uproar from home education organisations, the tone was one of complete refusal even to consider either this or any other recommendations. I can't really blame the government for leaving the implementation at what they see as a bare minimum. Besides which of course, all the support and so on would be very expensive. I don't think that anybody on the government side will be particlarly upset to drop that part of the report. Had the response been a little more measured to the whole report, I feel that home educators might have stood a better chance of negotiating. This is especially so because most ordinary people to whom I have spoken agree with Badman. Their kids are inspected, why shouldn't ours be?
ReplyDelete"It was not really a selective response, Sharon. The DCSF immediately agreed to the proposals for monitoring and inspection. This was because this was seen as being urgent. "
ReplyDeleteSo they selected the bits they thought were important.
"In the following uproar from home education organisations, the tone was one of complete refusal even to consider either this or any other recommendations. I can't really blame the government for leaving the implementation at what they see as a bare minimum."
So they decided to implement the bare minimum, uproar followed, and the uproar was why they decided to implement the bare minimum? I thought you disliked sloppy thinking?
The implication is that you believe they intended to implement the rest of the recommendations at a later date which ignores the likelihood that they will lose the next election and suggests a touching trust in politicians. If they can ask LAs to organise and pay for an expensive and employee intensive registration and monitoring system, it should have been very easy to tack on the facility for home educators to sit exams along with state school pupils.
"Besides which of course, all the support and so on would be very expensive."
Why? The main cost will be wages and they will already have to employ 400+ extra staff to carry out registration and monitoring. How much extra time would it take for them to offer support during the same visits? How expensive can it be for the LA to offer extra exam places when they already have thousands sitting the same exams?
" I don't think that anybody on the government side will be particlarly upset to drop that part of the report. Had the response been a little more measured to the whole report, I feel that home educators might have stood a better chance of negotiating."
Plenty of individuals and organisations took this approach when they spoke to Badman, organised visits to HE meetings and submitted responses and have done the same during several government consultations over the last few years. It didn't work.
"This is especially so because most ordinary people to whom I have spoken agree with Badman. Their kids are inspected, why shouldn't ours be?"
Schools (not kids) are inspected on behalf of the parents because the parents have delegated their child's education to schools but still have the duty to ensure their education is suitable and they are inspected on behalf of tax payers who are paying for the schools and need to be sure the money is well spent. Also, Ofsted inspections and SATs are three yearly so even that isn't comparable to annual inspections.
This is especially so because most ordinary people to whom I have spoken agree with Badman. Their kids are inspected, why shouldn't ours be?
ReplyDeletewhat utter rubbish most people would not want a child to be forced to be interviewed with a stranger in there own home with parents.or for the stranger to be able to just barge his way in.Most people do not agree with Badman once you explain things to them about home education.there also pleased to hear that we are not a drain on the tax player and that it means more should be spent on there children in state schools! peopel would also not want there council tax money used on home educators you ask themthat do you want the money spent on home educators or your state school?
The main ideas of Badman will be ver expensive your need a great deal of staff with all that goes with that i dread to think what it would cost? how much do you think? and the council tax payer would be very cross to see money wasted like this on home educators i do not think the money is there do you? the councils are short of staff now and overworked a number of councilors have told me this it just will not happen its pie in the sky and i think Badman knows that!
This government going it is dieing before our eyes it may will run out of time election is so near now and voter will take big revenge on Labour?Brown/Balls looking forward to puting my x down against Labour!
Well Sharon, thta's not really what I said. I believe that the intention was all along to bring in compulsory registration which was, rightly or wrongly, seen as urgently necessary. The huge fuss which followed this announcement effectively made it clear to those in the DCSF and local authoties that home education organisations would not co-operate nor discuss matters rationally. I think it would have been possible to get some good out of the Badman report, but saying, in effect, we will fight every aspect of this report every step of the way was not helpful.
ReplyDeleteYes, it would cost a fair bit if LAs began to pay for 10,000 or so HE kids each year to have five or ten GCSE's. It would also cost money for extra staff. I did a rough calculation and in Essex where there are over 700 home educated children known to the LA and about the same again unkown, I can't see them having to spend much less than £1,000,000 more than currently.
Well, I am thoroughly confused because I can't work out how many "anonymous" posters there are...but to "anonymous" in Hampshire whoever you are (and who seems determined to confront me in this and the previous post about whether LAs will or not provide any support to home educators)...the points I am trying to make are that
ReplyDelete1) Many (but not all) home educators do want more support from their LA (as seen not only by my own experience but the statistical analysis to the six questions).
2) To get any support at all obviously those families would have to engage with the LA.
3) We (and yes, here in Hampshire...) are successfully obtaining some support and are working to get more..as I pointed out in an earlier post since there is no direct funding available in the home education budget we have been able to persuade the LA to use alternative funding to bring this about.
4) I am however not convinced that asking the LA to provide pencils(!) for my child is the right way forward; when I chose home education I made that decision because I knew I could provide adequate resouces for that task. Making unreasonable and trivial demands when you have made a decision to home educate makes us all look silly!
Finally my own opinions re Badman? Well I try very hard not to tell other people how to run their lives/teach their children...I concentrate on helping those who ask for help. Those who actually know me in "the flesh" recognise that I am no LA stoodge....but whatever the future holds Badman wise I cannot see the point of seeking conflict with the LA where it is not necessary. It would appear that my gentler approach has reaped more rewards (for others) than your shopping list of demands!
Julie, the anonymous from Hampshire who sounds like an illiterate lunatic is a chap called Peter Wiliams who lives in Alton. A lot of people are like you, in that when they work together with their local authority they find that the LA will give some help and support. I live in Essex and there are certainly parents here who are getting help from the LA. They tend not to be the ones who are always raving and shouting.....
ReplyDeleteThe huge fuss which followed this announcement effectively made it clear to those in the DCSF and local authoties that home education organisations would not co-operate nor discuss matters rationally
ReplyDeleteThat is such rubbish simon and you know it! DCSF will not co-operate with home educators it is the DCSf who belive all children should be in school it is the DCSF that will not discuss with home educators our concerns it is the DCSF who ignore our views because there do not like them.The DCSF are not god and are often wrong about most things wake up simon the government is going there have bankrupted the UK there finshed! the voter will be taking his revenge on them hughe number of Labour seats are at risk.
It will cost far to much to bring in Badman ideas ideas how much do you think it will cost to pay for all of the extra staff when we known for a fact that councils are short of money and can not cope with the work there have now your living in cloud cookoo land simon.It will not happen in the way you belive it will. how much in truth would a compulsory registration scheme cost think about it? extra paper work office time staff? how willit all work i can think of plenty of ways to make more work for the council with registration if you do not register what happens does he write you could then ignore first letter how long would he wait to contact you month? 2 months? then you could write back and say sorry never got that letter can i help you? he say are you home educating you could ingore that letter does he write again to you? its pie in the sky
And above, Julie, is an example of Mr. Williams' posts. Would you trust this man to provide a suitable education for his son?
ReplyDelete"Well Sharon, thta's not really what I said. I believe that the intention was all along to bring in compulsory registration which was, rightly or wrongly, seen as urgently necessary."
ReplyDeleteNot sure what point you were answering here. Compulsory registration is a bit of a non-issue with ContactPoint on its way. The only issue with Badman is that registration is an extra layer of unnecessary bureaucracy. Why not just work from ContactPoint if you want a complete list of home educators?
"The huge fuss which followed this announcement effectively made it clear to those in the DCSF and local authoties that home education organisations would not co-operate nor discuss matters rationally."
Do you have any evidence for your belief that they have decided against offering support because of the opposition to the report? I mean, they haven't said that it's not going to happen yet, have they?
"Yes, it would cost a fair bit if LAs began to pay for 10,000 or so HE kids each year to have five or ten GCSE's."
Where do your figures come from? Even the highest of recent estimates for home educators in the UK would not result in 10,000 children taking 5-10 GCSEs in a year.
"It would also cost money for extra staff. I did a rough calculation and in Essex where there are over 700 home educated children known to the LA and about the same again unkown, I can't see them having to spend much less than £1,000,000 more than currently."
Who would have to spend more than £1,000,000 The UK or Essex? £1 million would pay for nearly 8,000 children to take an average of 5 GCSEs, a drop in the ocean compared to the cost of setting up and running a registration and monitoring system and I very much doubt that this many HE children will take 5 GCSEs in any one year.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2009/aug/07/diplomas-more-expensive-gcses-alevels
BTW, Essex think they know about 576 home educators according to a recent FOI request.
oh know did i fail the spelling test again? report us Simon you know uncle Jim number or are you all talk and no action? shall i try with Jim for you? funny thing is he is to scared to come to the phone but i try just for you and let you know
ReplyDelete"And above, Julie, is an example of Mr. Williams' posts. Would you trust this man to provide a suitable education for his son?"
ReplyDeleteHis son writes a good letter, especially for his age, so they seem to have overcome that obstacle.
come on Simom report us to uncle jim to say i know a child is not geting a full time education go for it tough guy? i will call Jim for you and tell him that you belive this child is not geting a suitable education and good old Jim will do not a thing. he wont even come to the phone to scared shame but i try just for you!
ReplyDeleteyes the letters are really good part of english week you can always get around an obstacle! such as Badman/DCSFEd Balls and there good friend simon who is all talk and no action. Peter dam good chess player as well played for England your daughter played for England simon?
Ah - now I know who you are - your son was withdrawn from school because you couldn't get permission for him to have 1 day off a week for chess practice? (We only live a few miles south of you). So why should any of us want to report you to anyone? You seem to be inciting us to take some action...if you want the govt to reject Badman's recommendations then perhaps we should all behave like articulate adults to help support our claims that children can be safe and well educated without outside interference!
ReplyDeleteYes, you are right Sharon, the Essex figures are down to 564. It was 700 a couple of years ago and I am, as usual, behind the times! My rough calculations were based upon assuming that there are actually twice this number altogether in essex. I am also assuming that to begin with 10% will refuse to co-operate at all and that this will result in legal proceedings against perhaps 100 parents in the first year. We would need seven full time staff, as against the four part time which are currently employed in Essex. This is based on one two hour monitoring visit per year for each child to begin with. (I am assuming that the staff will continue to work school term times only as most staff in local authority education departments currently do.) So three staff will each make two visits a day during term. Most of these staff are middle aged teachers, so I am giving them £30,000 a year each. We will need another three members of staff to provide support, assuming that a third of the families will want more support than just visits. We will also need an administrator to handle post and telephone. In addition to this, we will need new premises. So far, the staff costs are £200,000. If we are serious about taking action aginst those not providing a suitable education, then let us guess that 5% of our families fall into this category. This will mean, say, 50 cases a year, in addition to the 100 or so who we will prosecute for refusing access. I could go on in this vein, Sharon and give you a rough estimate for how much the legal activity will cost. then I could add the cost of examinations, books, various resources and the cost in overtime of making premises available to home educated children at odd times. I hope you are getting the general idea?
ReplyDeleteBy the way Mr. Williams, my daughter used to play a lot of chess, which is how I know you. She was the UK under sevens champion in 2000 at the Land Chess Challenge and we used to see you and your son at various events. She gave up chess because there were some very odd people on the chess circuit. Not the kids so much as the parents......
ReplyDeleteOh- touche Simon ( oops - wrong game)
ReplyDeleteOddly enough, Julie, Simone has done fencing for the last four years, ever since she gave up chess.
ReplyDeleteWe've obviously been talking at cross purposes. Most of the costs you mention relate to the planned changes; registration, monitoring enforcement, etc. I was talking about the additional costs of support (exam entries, for e.g.) which would be relatively minor.
ReplyDeleteI dare say the fault is mine, Sharon! Perhaps my mind really is not as sharp as I think. I was thinking of the overall costs of the whole project. Never the less, even just to provide two or three extra staff whose responsibility would be to help arrange exams, give advice about the curriculum and make home visits to help generally, I can't see most LAs getting away with much less than another sixty or ninety thousand a year extra. This would be in addition to the staff who were required to make the standard monitoring visits.
ReplyDeleteDo you really think it would cost between £9,000,000 and £13,500,000 a year to offer a little curriculum support and exam entries? How much do you envisage the planned changes costing then? Do you agree with the HEAS estimate of between £120-£500 million p.a.? Wonder where LAs are going to find the money if they are not going to be given any extra by central government.
ReplyDeleteI can't speak for every LA. Some, like Essex where I live, have quite a few HE kids. Others have fewer. I think that if the existing staff are going to be occupied in monitoring and inspection, then every LA will have to engage at least one or two new officers in order to provide support. One would have to stay in the office to give telephone advice and one would be visiting homes to take round materials and help with forms and so on. Even with two, they would be stretched. In order to cover for sickness and so on, I would guess that three would be more realistic. Two would be a bare minimum. Making premises and sports facilities available outside school hours to home educated children will mean paying caretakers and the odd teacher overtime. I'm not going to go too deeply into this, after all I have not been commissioned to carry out a feasibility study! I cannot see how the support costs alone for each LA would be much under £100,000 or £150,000 per year.
ReplyDeleteSo between £15 and £22.5 million p.a. for the UK just for support, even more than your original estimate of between £30 and £60 thousand per LA? Sounds a lot when 5 GCSEs for 8000 children would cost about £1 million. If support were to cost this much I dread to think how much the planned changes will cost as they involve discussions about the years education plans, checking for safety and welfare, at least two visits during the first year (and one LA study found that the majority withdrawn from school returned within a year so twice yearly visits may be the average), maintaining the register each year, writing reports and completing paperwork for each visit, enforcing registration, issuing school attendance orders, going to court, etc. I would guess it would involve at least 10 times the amount of work necessary for support. Maybe the HEAS estimates are a bit low?
ReplyDelete"I think that if the existing staff are going to be occupied in monitoring and inspection, then every LA will have to engage at least one or two new officers in order to provide support."
ReplyDeleteDo you think they already have enough staff for monitoring and inspection of all HEers?
No, I don't think that the already have enough staff for a proper monitoring system. If you really wanted to check whether somebody was providing a suitable education, then you could not realy do it on an annual visit of an hour or so, which is pretty well the maximum that we see now. Still less could you do so on the receipt of an educational philosophy. Mnay LAs seem to employ a couple of teachers nearing retirement age, who often work part time. I think the entire system being sufggested will be so expensive, even if it is limited to monitoring and inspection, that without extra money from central governemnt it will not get off the ground.
ReplyDeletePeter does not play in junior chess events far to weak and the land chess event is a mickey mouse event! you do find some odd LEA staff simon?
ReplyDeletePeter only plays in Adult chess events he won his first Adult chess event age 7.He does Takwon-do as well along with scouts and his junior leader now.
Julie there going to be no outside interference by LEA there have not got the time to run around after home eudcated parents.
Its not confict to demand a better service from LEA staff who we pay the wages for! and you still not said if you agree with Badman over his ideas including forced entry into a parents house and the attempt to force the child to be interviewed by a stranger so do you agree with that yes or no will do? we know simon does(for your own good)
Peter letters are not trival very well wrote and he wanted to ask for a pen from his LEA so what?
Peter left school on 23rd June 2003 and your be pleased to know that no meetings or home visits have taking place and never will.6 years that is file closed never to be re-opened it took up to much time so file was closed much to the relief of the LEA officers! who could then go on and pick on a real victim who would do as he/she was told after a bit of bullying!
Sorry, Mr Williams - off to pick up exam results....back to argue with you later! (Since argument seems to be the only thing you want to do!)
ReplyDeletegood luck with exam results! its not argue you have not said if you agree with Badman? do you? see you later Julie!
ReplyDeleteSo if Peter had been granted the day per week to play chess he would still be in school?
ReplyDeleteBubble- yes he would have been still in school,The ex head(there got rid of her ill health) was giving the time off and then the Hampshire county council along with some LEA officers where against this who refered it to a lawyer who said it was illegal so the head stoped granting the time off, but of couses it is not illegal a head teacher many grant unlimted time off for off site education there do this for other subjects! so we had no choice but to home educate. As its turned out it has worked out really well but of course we will never have anything to do with HCC because of the way there treated Peter.you want to see the underhand way there treat parents sly phone calls emails with lies in half truths took us a long time to get this infromation but we got it and the lies! Simon would know about this as he works with LEA officers what do they say about a family simon quite nasty some of it!
ReplyDeleteWell, I don't actually work with LEA officers at all; more often than not I tend to work against them. I work for a charity which provides advocacy for parents of children with special needs. That means that if the family want to remove the child from school, they approach me and I deal with the LEA on their behalf. A lot of the families with whom I work do not have English as a first language. The good Lord alone knows where you got the idea that I work with the LEA! I am massively unpopular with at least four local authorities, due to my annoying habit of insisting in the parents' right to remove a child from a special school if they wish to do so. I begin to see now where your son got the idea that I work with Graham Badman; I suppose that you must have told him this, even though it is a complete fantasy.
ReplyDeleteyou have met Graham Badman what did he say to you? and you to him? did you tell him the right way to do home education and give him the idea about forced home visits and see child on its own? was it your idea or his? how come YOU get to met him but not loads of other home educated children who want to talk to him about home education? thats a good review Badman refuses to meet with a number of home educated children and parents shows you what a crap report it was but you belive it is a brillent report dont you?
ReplyDeleteyour not unpopular with Local Authorities as you do not trust parents and only belive in the LEA way of doing home eudcation.You support uncle Graham Badman?DCSF and Ed Balls M.P dont you? you only belive in removing a child from a special school if there do it the Badman way.
you want to restrict peoples right to home educate your a danger to home educators with your crazy ideas.
you do not work against lEA you support them in there view that parents can not be trusted why do you mis-trust parents so much?
I told Peter you are in support of Graham Badman and LEA Peter thinks you are mad and need help to understand why your view will do harm to home eudcators! i think its the teacher in you that blinds you to the truth about Badman;DCSF Ed Balls M.P
What's all this about a teacher in me? I can't quite make that one out. Perhaps if you read what I say a little more carefully, you would not keep saying such idiotic things. But hey, it's up to you! If you like making a public exhibition of yourself in this way, who am I to discourage you?
ReplyDeleteanswer the questions simon? about you being a support of Badman? what did you say to him when you met him? did you give him the idea about forced home visits seeing child on its own. why cant you admit you support the DCSF/Ed Balls M.P and explain why you do not trust parents to do home education? you and Badman are the same you belive in controling people and always see the worse in everyone is this how you brought you daughter up to mistrust every one?
ReplyDeleteWell, I can't answer for Simon, but since you asked me I will give you my views on Badman et al, although I don't think it has much relevance to the original topic here....
ReplyDelete1) No, I don't welcome Badman's review or most of its conclusions- the exception being the possibility, however remote, of extra support/resources for families who want them.
2) I do however think that change is inevitable - partly because this govt is legislation mad but also because LAs are frustrated by the refusal of some home educators to cooperate at all and they know that were any of the cases that they have "missed" to enter up in court after some terrible tradegy the LAs would be pilloried by the likes of the Daily Mail. I met an LA officer in a case of child protection proceedings of a local home educated child a couple of years ago and he said that his main duty was to protect his LA from prosecution at a later date were they to have been found to have overlooked abuse. Hardly edifying, I know - but faced with views like that (and frankly similar views from the general school going public) I feel that we will face new legislation.
3) Do I think that interviewing HE children alone is a good idea? Frankly no....Firstly because if you interviewed my daughter and asked her if she was happy with home ed, her answer would be inversely proportional to the amount of algebra set in one day, whereas presumably her tree climbing autonomous friends would respond in the positive- so the whole idea is useless anyway. Secondly my daughter is autistic with language problems so her answers to questioning may have been odd/alarming at different times in her home ed life, and may have rung more alarm bells.
4) I don't welcome any more intrusion into family life, partly because such intrusions are often contrary to my (Christian) beliefs about the rights and reponsibilities of the parents.
5) Finally - I don't welcome the Badman review because of the paranoid reactions it has invoked from many parts of the home ed community- we are all looking like complete idiots!
Well, you did ask!
Julie- how did the exams go? change is not ineviable i dont belive that the conservative party has agreed to these changes and David Cameron has not spoken to say change is ineviable i have letters from him so does Peter. indeed a number of conservative M.P has spoken out including Mark Field M,P. so has lord Lucas.This government is also running out of time and will lose the next election so it is not ineviable many Labout M.P are very worried about the up coming election and how to save seats! as for the school general public its hard to say how there feel but i do know there would not want council tax money wasted on home educators if it could be spent on there children state school.the money not there to sppend on home educators anther buget would have to be cut but which one councils are very short of money something Badman did not account for we have 3 million out of work soon David Cameron has allready hinted about big cuts in public services so councils will not be able to run up great big wages bills chasing us.
ReplyDeleteThese visits will not stop abuse if it happen becuase it is only once a year what about the rest of the year?you have to strip the children to check for evidence what you really need is CCTV cameras but then you have to film every room! itis a red herring there have been no cases of any one sueing the LA over Home education you would need a great deal of money to do this and would lose!Its also got nothing to do with the daily mail policy is not made becase of some silly headline!
You have not said if you agree with forced right of entry in to a home educated childs house?
and you admit that interviewing child alone would be of no use so how do you feel about your council tax money being spent like this?have you told David Kirk he always claims very few people tell me about home education nows your chance! he is the p=one who sets HCC policy so write and tell him what you think.
it is not a paranoid reaction to Badman it is because we have learnt when dealing with LA/DCSF how under hand/sly there can be that you have to fight back with every tool you have.
there is all to play for do not belive Simon who always trys to make out you can not fight aginst bad laws our history has many examples vote for women trade union rights at one time it was illegal to be a menber of a trade union or for women to vote, slavery was legal? but it was changed by people who where brave enough to say this is wrong and we must change these laws! we can resist and we will resist this is what scares Simon would Simon have given women the vote? or would he as many men did say women are not clever enought to vote for the right party!
Our family will be saying no and will resist as we have done for 6 years against HCC nothing changes for us we just get better at home education/chess and how to complain!
Peter likes Algebra to.
1) Yes, exams okay thanks, dd seems pleased.
ReplyDelete2) If the legislation gets passed this session, I don't think any govt will bother to repeal it. Furthermore Michael Gove's office (who is the Cons education man, isn't he?) says HE will likely to be subject to inspection - so don't hold your breathe. I don't believe any MP of any party will vote against anything described as
"child protection"
3) Our council tax is spent in lots of ways I may not directly approve of...that is the nature of govt and taxation!
4) I have already told you my views on face to face compulsory interviews of children - I don't think they are of any value. Would I repel such invaders were my daughter still to be of compulsory school age and thus become subject to them ? No, I am generally law abiding and don't consider this to be a latter of conscience in which I could go against the law. However I would visit the imprisioned/support them in court and care for their children.
I don't know if that answers all your questions...
Julie - Glad to hear your daughter's exams went well.
ReplyDeleteAs you say IF legislation gets passed, there are some very high placed people including Lord Lucas who are not in favour of this. As Harold McMillan said "events dear boy, a week is a long time in politics" We are in the death throes of the current government and I doubt very much that this will be at the forefront of their thoughts - job preservation is more likely.
Council Tax - we should not just except if we don't agree we should object otherwise they just say we haven't had any complaints and assume its ok to carry on in their bizarre ways, why don't you try contacting David Kirk who sets the education policy?
Michael Grove M.P has not said that HE will be subjected to inspection where have you got this from? MP's do vote against all sorts of issues including false child protection concerns so your'e wrong about that. Conservatives have not said they support Badman's report, those I have spoken to do not support the blanket approach. Damian Hines has said to me that even under a 3 line whip he does not think he would support Badman's suggestions.
I think its a great shame that you would abide by a bizzare and unjustified law rather than support your daughter, where children are concerned everything is a matter of conscience, perhaps its just as well for your daughter that she is above compulsory school age
It was in an email sent from Michael Gove's office this week...so don't hold you breath! I thiink we are fighting the wrong battles; legislation of some kind soon or later is inevitable and rather then repelling all govt/LA/whoever your enemy is - at all costs we should try to mitigate the worst effects by tackling the bits which will have the most adverse effects.... and which are actually going to be pretty useless at even achieving their desired aim (in the govt mind) of child protection.
ReplyDeleteI only have limited capacity anyway - most of my time is spent bringing up my (admittedly) large family and supporting other home ed families who want help...fighting the inevitable isn't as high on my list of priorities as it is for some.
Julie- Peter has just recevied a letter from David Cameron M.P in which he says The Shadow Education Team have raised a number of concerns about the latest consultation,most notably that The department for Children.Schools,and Families tried to imply that home education was being used as a cover for child abuse.We find this offensive to those parents who often have to make a very difficult decision about withdrawing their child from school.
ReplyDeleteWe belive it is essential that every child in this country recives a frist-class education and one that is suitable to their needs.To achieve that.parentss should have the right to choose the education systen that best serves their child and home schooling should be included in this choice.Parents who make this choice should be etitled to the same presumption of innocence and competence that school going children's parents,recieve unless evidence dictates otherwise.
The shadow Eduction team find it incredible that he government held yet another consultation on the issue of home education this is now the fourth consulation in as many years.
No where does it mention in his letter does it state that M.Grove M.P wants more legal power over hom education.This letter from Mr Cameron M.P is a statemnet from the whole of the Shadow Education team including Mr M.Grove M.P.
What do you think of that Simon is Mr David Cameron M.P wrong then?
Gove...not Grove...and we shall see; but if his office this week is still talking about inspections I wouldn't hold your breath! Were you proved to be right about the fact that political change will wipe away all difficulties, then we would have nothing to fear, would we?
ReplyDeleteJulie- David Cameron letter is quite clear "unless evidence ditates otherwise".This is agreed by all of the Shadow education team.it is quite clear.and
ReplyDeleteWhat email? I am sure Mr Grove means(Peter will check) "where evidence ditates" not a blanket search of each home educated children house
Parents who make this choice should be etitled to the same presumption of innocence and competence that school going children's parent. it is quite clear from this statement that parents are to be inocenent unless evidence dictates,
Politcal change is coming Labour are going to lose the next election it will be a very heavy number of seats that will be lost.Mr Cameron is going to win and change will come and with that change.
I see Simon gone a bit shy over Mr Cameron letter to Peter is Mr Cameron wrong Simon?
We shall hang his letter up on our wall really nice letter from him.
Cameron is simply not mad enough to alienate something like fifty thousand voters the year before an election. The Tories are, I think, guessing that this new legislation will become law before they get in and unless you can extract a clear promise that they will set aside time in the term of the next parlimant to abolish it, the new laws will stay. All Cameron is saying is that home education should remain a choice by parents, which is precisely what Graham Badman and Ed Balls are saying. He does not spell out the form that the choice should take, neither is he promising to preserve it in its present form.
ReplyDeletebut David Cameron does say this
ReplyDeleteParents who make this choice should be etitled to the same presumption of innocence and competence that school going children's parent. it is quite clear from this statement that parents are to be inocenent unless evidence dictates,
i bet you like that statement parents inocenent unless Evidence dictates
what new laws? ive not seen any yet have you? what fifty thousand voters? i thought we had more than that in the uk?
Do you agree with David Cameron and his Shadow Education team or not?