Yesterday evening we had a BBC crew round the house for a programme being made about home education. I was asked whether I thought that new regulations were needed and I replied that I was even more strongly in favour of this than I had been last year. A couple of posts on HE lists today have really given me food for thought in this direction. Lets look at them and see what we think.
On the HE-UK list, the mother of a fifteen year old boy who "hates school" is being pursued by her local authority. They are threatening to prosecute her for her son's truancy. Education does not get much of a mention by this mother. We are told that the son is being seen by the local mental health team and suffers from "anger problems". The whole family are apparently receiving therapy. If ever there was a case for a child being given help and support, this is it. The help could most easily be delivered at school, but of course the boy can, as things stand, be withdrawn at a moment's notice. There is little suggestion that his mother wishes to educate him; she is just seeking an easy way out of a tricky problem, namely the threat of prison.
Over on the EO list is a mother of two children, one nine and the other thirteen. Their mother has withdrawn them from school and since then;
"we're just taking it easy at the moment and not getting up to much, I supposed we will learn as we go along?"
Unbelievable. She goes on to say;
"I'd like to meet some more people in the local area so I can get some more ideas as to what to do with them."
Call me Mr. Fuddy Duddy, but might she not have considered "what to do with them" before, rather than after, they were deregistered ? The truth is that this is such a straightforward and simple procedure that there is very little incentive to so. Kid doesn't want to go to school? Hey, why not deregister him? It only takes the cost of a stamp!
I have to say that this is a truly shocking state of affairs. I am passionately committed to home education and always have been. But that parents would withdraw their children from school to avoid prosecution for truancy in this way or deregister two children and only then start thinking about "what to do with them" is utterly appalling. So when the programme on home education is screened in a couple of weeks time, I hope that viewers will understand why I was so vehement. There is something dreadfully wrong with the present arrangements for home education in this country. It is not that I am all in favour of structured education and opposed to autonomous learning. It is that I have seen and still see parents like those mentioned above who withdraw their children from school simply because it is so easy. In both cases, there is no talk at all of providing an education. Withdrawing the children from school is the object of the exercise and only once it has been done will anybody consider what the children might need next. The sooner the Children, Schools and Families Bill 2009 becomes law, the better.
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OK, I'll restrain myself and call you Mr Fuddy Duddy.
ReplyDeleteI have no idea why you feel that help could most easily be delivered at school for a child who hates school. Well, the delivery of the help might be easier for whoever is delivering it, but that doesn't mean it's the best location for the child.
Or that a family cannot learn to home educate as it goes along. After all, one would expect a teacher with years of experience to be better at their job than an NQT, and teachers are supposed to do CPD, so presumably teachers 'learn as they go along' too.
Gosh, this lot isn't going to add to your popularity ratings, Simon!!
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, I do know there is truth in what you say...some people do deregister in these circumstances. Now that wouldn't be what you do, or what I would do; and I am certainly not of the " settle down and do nothing for several months" camp. Yet even out of unfavourable beginnings, there are some really positive home ed stories out there- I can show you lots of people who had no idea what they were going to do and yet whose children have gained a huge amount from home ed (including, you will be pleased to know, GCSEs). What such families need is real support to help them through the early days.....
The other point you overlook (especially where the whole truancy thing is concerned) is that in some cases it is too late for some of these children in the school system. Although part of me is horrified that home ed may be used to avoid keeping within the law, are the alternatives any more just? Is imprisoning truanting parents really helping the families concerned? The few cases that the newspapers follow up don't seem to have shown any great "repentance" on the part of the child if their mother is imprisoned, so I can't see that it actually solves the problem; so perhaps being deregistered and still not being educated may not do any more harm and may at least preserve the family.
What it comes down to is the balance of personal freedom versus society. Yesterday I was reading the report of the 2 boys who nearly killed 2 other boys they attacked; the whole story oftheir feral lives was condemend as a saga of lost opportunities and incompetence on the part of the authorities (in particular they apparently put the needs of the mother above those of the 7 out of control children) It is easy to say that the children should have been removed much earlier; but then again, the State doesn't make a good parent - and anyway, "they" may find our family lifestyle (8 children, conservative Christians.....) equally unsatisfactory to the state ideals in other ways.
You need to meet a lot more home educators, Simon and you will find that uncertain beginnings and mixed motives doesn't predestine educational disaster!
You say that you have no idea why I feel that help could most easily be delivered for a child at school, suzieg. I'm guessing then that you have never doen any home visiting. Knocking on the door andhearing a television, which is immediately switched off. the dead silence, as the inhabitants of the house pretend to be out! This wastes an awful lot of time for a psychologist or other professional and does the child no good either. Arranging to see the kid at a clinic wastes less time; you simply assume that he will be a "no show". At least when he's at school you have a fair chance of actually getting hold of him! Helping the child, by the way is my concern when I read this post on the HE-UK list. The mother's main concern seems to be avoiding prison.
ReplyDeleteI have not the least doubt Julie, that many, probably most, home educators undertake the task for good reasons and do it well. Unfortunately, many do not. Meeting a group of forty committed home eductors would not mean that there are not quite a few others who withdraw their child to avoid problems. I agree with you that sending the parents of truants to prison is a bad idea, but something has to be done.
ReplyDeleteYou say that many parents "learn on the job" as it were and their children go on to good educational results. I am sure that this is true as well. My point is that withdrawing a child from school is a very serious business and that this should be made more clear. Making a fuss of the thing and introducing legal processes will have the effect of making parents think very carefully about this step. I am sure that many already do so, but I certainly know others for whom this is in a way almost a fashionable thing to do. They do it because they have heard about it and it sounds like the sort of alternative lifestyle that attracts them.
You are making an assumption that whatever interventions are put in place at school are going to be effective.
ReplyDeleteYou say yourself that you home educated your daughter because you didn't trust anyone else to do so. I made the mistake of doing so, and my daughter and I have been picking up the pieces ever since. I watched her deteriorate from a bright-eyed bushy-tailed little thing into a child who was literally bored to tears and completely disaffected with school because several of her teachers behaved in an extraordinarily incompetent fashion.
If I hadn't been aware of home education I don't doubt that we would have had considerable ongoing difficulties with school. I wouldn't dispute that many cases of school disaffection originate in parental behaviour and attitudes, but many originate with schools and I know from experience that it can take some time to get to the bottom of problems, sort them out, recover one's composure and get on with preparing one's child for adult life.
I am making no assumptions at all about the effectivenness of any interventions. I am saying that if work is to be carried out with the child, then it is easier for all concerned if it is done through the school rather than through the family. This is fact of life. In this particular case, that of a fifteen year old boy with some sort of unspecified psychiatric condition and having "anger problems", I am guessing that some sort of help is needed. Withdrawing him from school practically guarantees that he will not receive this help.
ReplyDelete'The whole family are apparently receiving therapy.'
ReplyDeleteWell, they are CERTAINLY not all receiving it at school, are they? They'll be going along to an office somewhere to get it. Taking him out of school might be the best possible way for the family to come to grips with whatever his problems really are.
Taking school out of the equation can make complicated situations much clearer. Then the way forward is easier to determine.
Sad, sad, sad that you are so ready to pick up that sledgehammer to crack such a tiny nut.
And just when I was starting to like you.
Mrs Anon
Starting to like me? Are you mad? Consider your credibility with other home educators, I beg of you. I do not consider this to be at all a case of taking a sledghammer to crack a tiny nut. If such cases were freakish and unusual, I might agree; they are not. When a fifteen year old boy has both a psychiatric disorder and "anger problems", then it is a matter of some urgency that he receives help. He may get it at home or by visiting a family centre, then again he may not. It is vital that a youth like this is kept in view and not allowed to slip out of sight.
ReplyDeleteAs for the two girls ages nine and thirteen, I consider it shocking that anybody could withdraw them from school and only then start wondering what to do with them. No wonder there will be a requirement for a statement of educational approach when this happens in the furtre. It is precisely such cases which have underlined the need for this.
I might be out of touch, so I need to check this. Psychiatric help is only provided in and through schools these days? And if the child in question is a persistent truant? How does tthat help?
ReplyDeleteThe sitation of the 9 and 13 year olds seems to be actually quite good. Mum is aware of her limitations and her need for mentoring and advice and is actively seeking it.
I've never been one for advising loads of 'deschooling' time myself, but am capable of imagining that some children with dreadful school experiences to get over might need a bit of time free from academic work whilst they heal and build good strong family relationships. It's not what I would do, but I don't freak out at those who do things differently.
Yes, as I keep saying, there are some less than perfect home educators. Those of us whose mantra isn't 'A's are for losers!', those of us who recognise our imperfections and pray to God for His good help in making up for our inadequacies.
Mrs Anon
"Helping the child, by the way is my concern when I read this post on the HE-UK list. The mother's main concern seems to be avoiding prison."
ReplyDeleteAnd this wouldn't help the child? How, exactly, would sending the mother to prison help the child? Has it helped the families where this has been tried so far?
I do not think Anonymous, nor did I say, that sending this woman to prison would be a good idea. I did say that I thought deregistering her son from school, using home education as a pretext in order to avoid prosecution for truancy was a bad idea. All other considerations apart, it is exactly this sort of dodge which brings genuine home educators into disrepute.
ReplyDeleteA while ago Mrs. Anon, you suggested that I appeared to live on a different planet from your own as regards home education. It was a fair point. In this case though, it is a positive advantage. The woman with the fifteen year old son whose case I cited, is from a planet with which I am very familiar. It is called Planet Chaotic and Disfunctional Single Mother With Kids By Different Fathers All Of Whose Children Are A Complete Bloody Nightmare For The School. I have spent a large part of my working life on this planet and know well its customs and practices and am all to familiar with the mores of its inhabitants. You are right in doubting that psychiatric help is provided through schools these days; it is not. I am guessing that this woman and her children attend a "Family and Child Consultation Centre" run by North West Xshire Mental Health Partnership, or some such. All their records go through the child's school and they have close contact with the school. I imagine that the Ed Psychs from the local authority liase with them about this family and I would not be surprised to hear that they also have dealings with a Speech and Language Therapy unit at a local hospital or Health Centre. These people will all deal with schools and also visit them. They probably won't make home visits for these are generally a waste of time. When the child has an appointment, the school may get somebody to escort him to the various locations and then bring him back again. If he drops out of school, nobody will be that bothered and the various services will, after a few letters, probably lose interest in him. This would be a disaster. While he is on the school's roll, he will be their responsibility and get some services. Although in theory it is possible to access all these services without a school, it takes a bit of gumption and persistance from the parent. I would expect that to be lacking in this case. The next anybody will hear of the youth is when he appears in court.
>>A while ago Mrs. Anon, you suggested that I appeared to live on a different planet from your own as regards home education. It was a fair point. In this case though, it is a positive advantage. The woman with the fifteen year old son whose case I cited, is from a planet with which I am very familiar. It is called Planet Chaotic and Disfunctional Single Mother With Kids By Different Fathers All Of Whose Children Are A Complete Bloody Nightmare For The School. I have spent a large part of my working life on this planet and know well its customs and practices and am all to familiar with the mores of its inhabitants. <<
ReplyDeleteYes, me too. I was the Head of the Special Needs Dept of a large London comprehensive school before having children. It was a long time ago, but we dealt with such families on a daily basis. I'm unclear now though. Do you know the woaman you refer to from the yahoo group personally? You know she has children from different fathers etc?
>>You are right in doubting that psychiatric help is provided through schools these days; it is not.<<
Ah, I thought that would be odd.
>>I am guessing that this woman and her children attend a "Family and Child Consultation Centre" run by North West Xshire Mental Health Partnership, or some such. All their records go through the child's school and they have close contact with the school.<<
Well, not ALL their records for sure. Unless the law has changed considerably since I chaired Care Committee (school plus all external agencies) in my school. There is the issue of confidentiality. The fact that the child was receiving treatment *might* have been made known but no other details. Certainly, their records would not have been available for us to read.
>>I imagin that the Ed Psychs from the local authority liase with them about this family << Actually, possibly not.
>> and I would not be surprised to hear that they also have dealings with a Speech and Language Therapy unit at a local hospital or Health Centre. These people will all deal with schools and also visit them.<<
Deal with them and visit them possibly, but not to deliver services, except the SALT.
>>They probably won't make home visits for these are generally a waste of time. When the child has an appointment, the school may get somebody to escort him to the various locations and then bring him back again. If he drops out of school, nobody will be that bothered <<
Again, do you know this boy and his family? Your imagination is running ahead of you again. The mother is connected to a home ed yahoo group at least and is making contacts and getting information and advice.
>>and the various services will, after a few letters, probably lose interest in him. This would be a disaster. <<
That's not a result of an HE problem. It's a health service problem.
>>While he is on the school's roll, he will be their responsibility and get some services.<<
Maybe, if he's lucky and the parents push for them. Many kids with problems are removed precisely because those services do not materialise.
>> Although in theory it is possible to access all these services without a school, it takes a bit of gumption and persistance from the parent. I would expect that to be lacking in this case.<<
Why do you suspect that? Do you know her?
>> The next anybody will hear of the youth is when he appears in court.<<
Which may or may not have happened if he'd continued at school or as a truant.
Mrs Anon
Simon said "Meeting a group of forty committed home eductors would not mean that there are not quite a few others who withdraw their child to avoid problems."
ReplyDeleteSimon, you misunderstand me... if you came to visit our group you wouldn't meet forty committed home educators at all. Now I am going to result to parody here - but the group consists of the very people that worry you. Yes, there are a few committed long term home educators who made a positive decision - but there is also Mrs "I withdrew my son before he was expelled" Miss "I am here because my parents nearly lost custody to social services" Mrs "my children have oppositional won't do whet they are told disorder", Ms "I found the teachers too intimidating so I didn't like sending my children to school" accompanied by Mrs " my child has a learning problem that no one has ever heard of" and so on. Gosh; Simon we have the lot - children who "failed" at even a Steiner school, children whose parents may be deemed to be members of cults by many (or who certainly have very some very odd ideas), people whose family arrangements make me squirm, the mentally ill and even the autonomous! I suppose I was once "one of them"-( Biblical allusion here - ask Mrs Anon) my daughter left school in a crisis- actually expelled at 7 and she hasn't always been teachable or charming -I suspect the school breathed a huge sigh of relief when she went. These chaotic families are now my friends and despite everything they are still managing to a lesser or greater degree to home educate their children.
What I am trying to say is that I don't think it matters how people arrive at home education; it can still be highly successful. What I do wish is that families who make the decision should get more support... and I think that the home ed community could do a lot more in this area ( but then we never can agree on anything...)
Well I'm pretty up on the Bible Julie, but "One of them" escapes me! I've looked at my faithful Cruden's Concordance, but no clue. All I can think of is "Stranger in a strange land". My daughter is also foxed by this. So what was the Biblical allusion? Or is the reference to the Jews having no dealings with the Samaritans?
ReplyDeleteWe have a de-reg timelag. But it is to allow the school to go into a frenzy of form filling, give the min of ed enough time to lose all your documentation (twice) and much rubber stamping. I suppose it pulls up short the people who decide to HE in a fit of pique,but other than that it is just an admin thing.
ReplyDeleteThe way they deal with the sort of issue you mentioned, about the boy with mental health issues, is that while HE isn't a red flag in of itself it can become a red flag in a situation where other issues are already known to the school.
Because there won't be the daily(ish) contact with an outside agency who will notice if things dive-bomb or continue to decline, SS take over. You aren't on the at risk reg as it were but they do come and check up on your children from a welfare perspective from time to time and unless you want your permission to HE to be withdrawn you have to co-operate. SS have the power to call in ASL and CPS (health service and the mental health outreach programme) so they can pull in services if they are needed (or rather, if there is enough cash to pay for them).
Simon - The reference is alluding to I Cor 6 v 11 (tricky to identify due to plurality of versions etc)
ReplyDeletenot that I am particularly claiming to be a thief, drunkard or any of the others listed in the previous couple of verses on this particular occasion...merely pointing out that I could be identified with those whose children left school in a panic, with no previous planning... and it hasn't turned out too bad!!
Ah thanks, Julie. You had me puzzled there. What's all this about a plurality of versions? Why do you think we call the King James, the "authorised" version? I rest my case. Accept no substitutes. Please tell me that you don't use the GNB.
ReplyDeleteNo, fear not - new KJ here (can't cope with dynamic equivalence in translations). Sad thing is that I used to be really good in NT Greek but seven children later and I am hopeless....never did Hebrew though.
ReplyDeleteHmm. Your faith in the support available to children at school is touching, but utterly misguided, Simon. I know 3 teenagers with Asperger's Syndrome. Two of them were at the same secondary school, which reputedly has the best special needs department in the area; despite this, they were both undiagnosed until after they had left. One started school refusing and truanting almost as soon as she went to secondary school, and despite endless sessions with ed psychs, meetings with EWO's, special taxis and goodness knows what else, never attended for more than a couple of days a week. Her mother spent years meeting with everyone in sight, trying to get help for her, but unfortunately couldn't HE. She left with no qualifications and very low self-esteem. She is now at college studying photography, having gained a place on the strength of her portfolio, and doing very well. The other, very gifted, and autonomously HE by his working mother until 14, when he asked to go to school (and incidentally a lovely, easy-going, peaceable chap who had no obvious problems until he went to school), became a disruptive troublemaker out of sheer boredom, because the staff refused to recognise his gifts and give him work that challenged him, despite repeated attempts by his mother to talk to them, which were met with little more than contempt. His mother tried to persuade him to be HE again but he refused. He left with very good GCSE's despite hardly doing a stroke of work and then had a massive nervous breakdown culminating in a suicide attempt. He is now recovering and planning to start his A levels at college next year.
ReplyDeleteThe third became school phobic and was de-registered by his mother (not only to avoid prosecution for truancy - how would that have helped? - but also to rescue him from an intolerable situation) and autonomously home educated for a couple of years, doing very little but recover for the first year, before going to private school, where he is now an A* student and applying to university. She is not well off and makes huge personal sacrifices to afford the fees.
The "system" has done nothing for any of these kids. Their mothers, all (shock horror) Single Mothers With Kids By Different Fathers All Of Whose Children Are A Complete Bloody Nightmare For The School, have done everything.
And you wonder why they pretend to be out when people like you come knocking at their doors?
"I do not think Anonymous, nor did I say, that sending this woman to prison would be a good idea. I did say that I thought deregistering her son from school, using home education as a pretext in order to avoid prosecution for truancy was a bad idea."
ReplyDeleteYou suggested that ther mother's main interest was in avoiding prison rather than helping her child. I would suggest that they are not mutually exclusive and avoiding prison could be the best way she could help her child in the situation they were in.
"All other considerations apart, it is exactly this sort of dodge which brings genuine home educators into disrepute."
So it's more important that home educators not be brought into disrepute than the health and safety of a child and their family being threatened by the state with the imprisonment of the mother? I'm sorry, but I would rather be lumped in with a mother who protects her child and family from the state than someone who condemns her for doing so.
Wrote the above before reading Erica's post; it says it all really and relatives have had similar experiences with lack of help within the system. Maybe you (Simon) have been unfortunate in the people you have met in these situations and they really don't have the good of their children at heart, either that or you just can't see it and possibly lack empathy. The people I know who have struggled within the system with truancy and lack of help are nothing like the people you describe. Or maybe we are just bleeding heart liberals and we should do as the Not the Nine O'Clock News sketch suggests and just cut of their bo**ocks!