Thursday 23 December 2010

There are other qualifications besides GCSEs.

I have in the past been accused of an obsession with GCSEs and also of ignoring all the other qualifications out there, such as Open University courses. This is quite an interesting point, because my daughter herself almost went along this path. She did a few units of an OU course when she was eight, but in the end it was decided that International GCSEs were a better bet.

There are quite a few things to be said in favour of GCSEs and some things to be said in favour of OU courses. As far as GCSEs go, they are a standard measure of education. I don't want to get into a debate about whether they have been 'dumbed down'. We chose not to do ordinary GCSEs, partly because the coursework was a problem and partly because the IGCSEs are more rigorous and highly regarded; very much like the old GCE. When taken purely as examinations, there is no scope for the sort of cheating which has been endemic in the GCSEs for over twenty years. Everybody understands the yardstick being used for a reasonable education; five GCSEs at grades A*-C, including English and mathematics. This is the sort of standard measure which will allow you access to study A levels at a college and which many employers regard as the bare minimum level of education which they require for people applying for jobs. Universities too, often want to see good GCSEs in addition to A levels. Really, they are most useful and apart from those who cannot afford them, I can't imagine why anybody would prefer her child not to have them.

Mind, I don't personally think that five GCSEs at C, is what the government seem to imagine it is; the infallible mark of a teenager who has had a good education. Their lack, after a child has spent eleven years in the educational system certainly tells you something, but unless a child has learning difficulties, it would be hard to see how she could avoid scraping a C at five subjects. This again, gives IGCSEs an edge over the standard GCSE.

Open University courses are another way of gaining qualifications. We saw this year that a child who had gained a certain number of points at the OU was able to get a place at Exeter university to study law. They certainly can be used in this way, although it is rather more difficult than using GCSEs and A levels. The problem is partly that when everybody else is using one measure, it is bound to be a little harder to get them to accept something a little different. Getting into university in this way is not particularly common. Still, not everybody wants to go to university and this is another difficulty. Most employers are not familiar with Open University points as a way of judging the educational attainment of a teenager. How many points on what course works out as five GCSEs at A*-C? What is the equivalent to a couple of A levels? As I say, my daughter was doing fine getting a few points at the OU when she was eight. The only thing is, that although she was doing all the work herself, there was no way of checking this. It might have been like a coursework scam and I might have been doing it for her. This makes some course of this sort a little less reliable than if a child actually sits in a room under moderated conditions and takes an examination. The IGCSEs show that she is capable of certain level of work at mathematics; they show that she herself can perform calculus. Points on an Open University course do not necessarily demonstrate the same thing at all.

There is something a little quixotic about the determination of so many home educating parents to avoid GCSEs. It is as though they are set on making life for their children just that little bit harder as they grow up. Everybody else is using an accepted scale of measuring something and they are hell bent on using something quite different.

None of this has anything to do with whether one believes or not that GCSEs or IGCSEs are actually measuring anything or saying anything worthwhile about the intelligence or education of a teenager. It is a matter of realpolitic; this what everybody believes and this is the system which is generally accepted. That being the case, it is hard to see any justification for engaging our children, who are not old enough to make an informed choice in the matter, in opposing the system. Certainly as adults, we can choose to make our lives difficult by being bloody-minded, but it is hardly fair to encourage our children to adopt a similar frame of mind as they deal with the world. Why would you do that, anyway?

41 comments:

  1. Are you seriously calling into question the validity of every OU qualification anyone has ever earned with this?

    'The only thing is, that although she was doing all the work herself, there was no way of checking this. It might have been like a coursework scam and I might have been doing it for her. This makes some course of this sort a little less reliable than if a child actually sits in a room under moderated conditions and takes an examination.'

    My child did IGCSE's because I figured that was easier than OU. So, don't call my motives into question for wanting to discuss OU. You say the most ridiculous things sometimes.

    OU qualifications suit lots of people, and are certainly no handicap. No one questioned my friend's OU degree when she went into teaching. No one said to her, 'But your Daddy might have done the work for you.'

    ReplyDelete
  2. "None of this has anything to do with whether one believes or not that GCSEs or IGCSEs are actually measuring anything or saying anything worthwhile about the intelligence or education of a teenager. It is a matter of realpolitic; this what everybody believes and this is the system which is generally accepted. "

    Exactly. It's realpolitik, not anything to do with a good education. Someone with a good set of GCSE results could reasonably be assumed to be better educated than someone with no GCSEs, but it is only an assumption. The inspection of home educated children by the same criteria as are used in schools would need to assume that the national curriculum and GCSE course content are a valid proxy for a good education. I think this is questionable.

    ReplyDelete
  3. 'Are you seriously calling into question the validity of every OU qualification anyone has ever earned with this?'

    No and that is not what I said at all.

    ReplyDelete
  4. If there is a wrong end of the stick to be grasped, somebody commenting here will be sure to do so. Somebody who comments above thinks that I am saying that OU degrees are suspect. I am not saying anything of the sort. I was merely pointing out that in many cases, OU work such as Tutor Marked Assigments are open to the same scams and abuses as coursework at GCSE.

    ReplyDelete
  5. 'need to assume that the national curriculum and GCSE course content are a valid proxy for a good education. I think this is questionable.'

    Well that is of course a fair point. I have to say that I never had any dealings nor regard for the National Curriculum. I was talking in any case less about the very difficult question of whether GCSEs measure education and more about how they will be useful to a child in getting a job or going to university. One can level the same accusations against some OU courses as one can against GCSEs; that is, to what extent do they measure education?

    ReplyDelete
  6. Part of the reason I would avoid the standard five GCSEs A*-C would be cost. My daughter is doing GCSE English this year and it is costing us £531 at our local college.
    This is the cheapest quote I have found for a taught subject locally. I could have done it myself and just paid for the exam but I know my limits. Next year she will sit GCSE Maths in the same way.
    On top of this she is doing an Animal Care course at a different college, also at an astounding cost. This is a two year course.
    Her aim is to attend her second college full time at 16 and study animals so tailoring her learning to her interests(animals) and her needs has suited her far better than doing the standard five exams in uninteresting subjects.

    ReplyDelete
  7. Gosh - what a financial commitment - I am sorry that you have to fork out such a lot!

    ReplyDelete
  8. 'Part of the reason I would avoid the standard five GCSEs A*-C would be cost.'

    Yes, this is really a pain. That is why some people were a bit miffed at the going back on the offer of access to examination centres and so on. I would be interested to know how many home educators might jump at the chance if their children could just sit examinations free nd without any fuss. The amount of work involved in lining up a college or school prepared to take private candidates is incredible. I understand that it has eased a little now, with many independent schools accepting private candidates in order to prove to the Charity Commission that they are providing public benefits.

    ReplyDelete
  9. "Julie said...

    Gosh - what a financial commitment - I am sorry that you have to fork out such a lot!"


    Thanks :) It is a tough one and we have had to budget. A lot. Most of us agree that where possible we do what we can for our kids education, even if its costly.
    On the plus side, after dd is in college full time I get a two year reprieve until dd #2 needs funding.

    ReplyDelete
  10. Simon Said...
    Yes, this is really a pain. That is why some people were a bit miffed at the going back on the offer of access to examination centres and so on. I would be interested to know how many home educators might jump at the chance if their children could just sit examinations free nd without any fuss."


    I would certainly have been strongly tempted by funding for exams/courses as we really struggle. I do wish the option and the choice was there for us to access funding.
    Interestingly, in the South Somerset Area one child I know of has secured funding for their 14 yr old to do the 14-19 diploma.

    ReplyDelete
  11. One parent has secured funding I mean ... must be too early.

    ReplyDelete
  12. Off out, so briefly ....but actually I think that few got funding through the propsed college scheme, others got funded like the Hants ones did - through drawing down existing school funding.

    ReplyDelete
  13. "One can level the same accusations against some OU courses as one can against GCSEs; that is, to what extent do they measure education?"

    There are two different issues. Courses can form part of an education. What an exam measures is how well a student has mastered the course. Neither the course, nor the exam performance is an infallible indicator of the quality of the person's education. If their education consists solely of GCSE courses and/or OU courses, it is quite possible their education could be inadequate by some people's measures.

    What is more than likely is that any assessment of home education would be by very narrow, and possibly inadequate criteria. That is what worries me about the concept.

    ReplyDelete
  14. Simon said,
    "somebody who comments above thinks that I am saying that OU degrees are suspect. I am not saying anything of the sort."

    and Simon said,
    "I was merely pointing out that in many cases, OU work such as Tutor Marked Assigments are open to the same scams and abuses as coursework at GCSE."

    Can you really not see the contradiction here?

    If this is an issue, it could easily be avoided by ensuring that at least one OU course includes an exam.

    ReplyDelete
  15. 'Can you really not see the contradiction here?'

    I really can't. There is a lot of cheating in GCSE coursework and I dare say that a fair bit goes on when children are doing OU courses as well. It is less likely to be the case when an adult decides to study for an OU course independently than when child or teenager is studying. This is why I do not think that all OU degrees are suspect, but at that same time, knowing the scams with GCSE coursework, I am a little less sure when it is a child or teenager doing the course.

    ReplyDelete
  16. "There is a lot of cheating in GCSE coursework and I dare say that a fair bit goes on when children are doing OU courses as well."

    So you don't think that cheating in coursework makes GCSEs suspect? What would be enough to make them suspect in your view? How can cheating not make a qualification suspect?

    ReplyDelete
  17. Do you have to pass both the exam and coursework to gain a qualification in GCSE? This is the case with OU courses with exams.

    ReplyDelete
  18. "It is less likely to be the case when an adult decides to study for an OU course independently than when child or teenager is studying."

    Why? It's probably easier for an adult to cheat as they would probably be more adept at changing the wording of texts sufficiently to avoid problems with plagiarism detection software. They are also more likely to be able to afford to pay for suitable 'help'.

    ReplyDelete
  19. You seem to have decided that a 14 year old is incapable of making important decisions about their future. Our experience has been different. Out of a small group of families whose children have been free to choose for themselves (with lots of advice and help) some have chosen to take GCSEs and other have selected alternative routes. In all cases they have achieved what they wanted to achieve. They have gained the job or course they were aiming for and are all (so far) happy with their choices. In at least one case, taking GCSEs and A levels would have slowed down their progress through the system because their selected degree course recommends a 4 year degree route for A level students or a 3 year route for the equivalent BTEC qualification students.

    ReplyDelete
  20. 'It is less likely to be the case when an adult decides to study for an OU course independently than when child or teenager is studying."

    Why? It's probably easier for an adult to cheat as they would probably be more adept at changing the wording of texts sufficiently to avoid problems with plagiarism detection software. They are also more likely to be able to afford to pay for suitable 'help'. '

    This is true of course. However although parents 'helping' with coursework at GCSE is so common as to have become a scandal, I have never known an adult studying for an OU course to do so. In fact, it is a point of honour with most adults doing an OU course not to do this. This makes me suspect that the cheating is more a matter of parents and children, rather than whichever particular type of examination is being taken.

    ReplyDelete
  21. This has all got a bit sidetracked about whether students on OU courses can cheat or not. To me that isn't reaaly very relevant - if students do fiddle the TMAs, t will come to light in the exams.

    What may be of more relevance (to me anyway) is whether OU courses which are below degree level and which aren't themselves used as a means of uni entry are as acceptable to employers/colleges as the more traditional qualifications. Rightly or wrongly, the Govt yardstick is 5 GCSES; and however enlightened unis are in, for example, taking HE students with 120 plus points to do traditional degrees, I wonder of the same attitude filters further down to employers etc ?

    ReplyDelete
  22. "I have never known an adult studying for an OU course to do so."

    One wonders why they (and bricks and mortar universities) bother with anti-plagiarism software then.

    "What may be of more relevance (to me anyway) is whether OU courses which are below degree level"

    Are any OU courses below degree level? As far as I know they all give you degree points which suggests they are degree level.

    ReplyDelete
  23. 'I wonder of the same attitude filters further down to employers etc ? '

    While most ordinary people are well aware of the five GCSEs at A*-C, very few know about points awarded by the Open University. I dare say that it is possible to get into FE Colleges like this, but here again, many in admissions are used to GCSEs and A levels and nothing else. This may not be a godd thing; but it is the way things are.

    ReplyDelete
  24. Anti home education teacher Julie says-

    Gosh - what a financial commitment - I am sorry that you have to fork out such a lot!


    your not sorry that this person has to fork this amount out if you where you write and make a formal complaint why dont you write to HCC Julies every one here in Hampshire who home educaters has to pay for any exams our children may take! so when will you be making a formal complaint about this? or will you be to busy sucking up to Jan Lweis so that just YOUR group grabs everthing on offer!We should see all notes miuntes of meetings you have with HCC what do you say to them we ask!? or are to busy stuffing cake to say anything! LOL

    ReplyDelete
  25. Anon above ....

    What I was trying to say (I think you misunderstood) was that if a student has 120 points, they may get into a traditional uni and do a degree there rather than complete the OU degree ( as is the case of the home edder who is off to do law at Exeter.)

    However, what if they want to go into employment instead rather than continue in education? I wondered how recognisable those points would be to an employer?

    I have a daughter with a disability, and that is one reason why we did the traditional IGCSES and now A levels route, rather than OU. My daughter won't be carrying on into higher education, and she will face a huge problem with employability as it is; I felt that easily recongisable qualifications would be to her advantage.

    ReplyDelete
  26. C says-It is a tough one and we have had to budget. A lot. Most of us agree that where possible we do what we can for our kids education, even if its costly.

    dont you complain to your LA about this? or are you to scared to tell them or maybe you agree that you should pay for all of this for your child? go on wrtie a letter of complaint to you LA you know how much LA like paper work you can ask them to mark it!

    ReplyDelete
  27. Peter above - Gosh, I am sure we said all this before......

    a) There are minutes of meetings- I may be accountable to my local HE group - but not to you.
    Join your local HE group and ask them for their minutes of such meetings.

    b) I am truly sorry that C. who posted above has to fork out such a lot for her childs qualifications and am cross (though hardly surprised) that the Govt hasn't delivered on the promise of exam fees. I shall be continuing to point out the short sightedness of such actions to the Govt whenever possible and I shal also be making proposals to the LA as to alternative ways of funding home educators throughout Hants.

    c) However rather than just making noises about the iniquity of such things, my local home ed group does offer some pratcial solutions too. Those who can offer expertise in GCSE subjects to others give up some of our week to do just that - we teach groups of teenagers to GCSE/IGCSE in 5 or 6 subjects. There are currently 80 or so children benefitting from this. In addition I managed to negotiate a low cost exam centre for the students to use; again I regret there is any cost at all, but the exam fees have to be paid. Someone in your part of the county is also trying to do that in the north, although I think one of the issues has been identifying volunteers to do the slog (as part of our deal, we provide invigilators, which isn't exactly a popular job!)

    Perhaps less moaning and more action may prove effective!

    ReplyDelete
  28. Teacher Julie says-Peter above - Gosh, I am sure we said all this before......
    There are minutes of meetings- I may be accountable to my local HE group - but not to you.
    Join your local HE group and ask them for their minutes of such meetings.

    I not be allowed to join Local HE group im to outspoken im afraid i suspect the local group is way to weak and sides with HCC!
    We should be able to see what you say to HCC not just your group!

    your not really sorry about how much C has to pay if you where you make a complaint why wont you do this? and about HCC as it refuses to help with cost of exams make a complaint that shous every one who sides your on!

    you do make me laugh Julie with your hope that HCC will do something for home educators! any way xmas is almost her i guess i should wish you Julie the teacher a happy christmas LOL

    ReplyDelete
  29. "I have a daughter with a disability, and that is one reason why we did the traditional IGCSES and now A levels route, rather than OU. My daughter won't be carrying on into higher education, and she will face a huge problem with employability as it is; I felt that easily recongisable qualifications would be to her advantage."

    Would she be able to complete a degree with the OU? What about certificates of higher education that are the equivalent of the first year of a degree. Are these awarded by other universities and recognised by employers? They are the equivalent of HNCs which are another option that's well known to employers along with BTECs (another alternative again).

    Maybe the practical side of BTECs would suit her better? Two of mine have preferred this route to more academic alternatives and one is already employed because of the qualification (the other is going to uni). Neither took GCSEs.

    ReplyDelete
  30. The practical side of BTECs is the exact opposite to her skills - she is definately an exam type of girl! The less continous assessment the better really for her!

    Yes, we may well attempt some OU; she is currently doing one A2 and one AS level. The main problem for her is trying to find some sort of job she can actually do (even if it is very part time) to give her some real life experience.... "My" vague plan was she could do some sort of lab tech type of job (she loves chemistry) until we discovered she has a sort of phobia about the practical side - so a lab tech spending her days doing theory wouldn't really work! Back to the drawing boaad!

    ReplyDelete
  31. The OU should really suit her then. Even the TMAs feel like exams! OU continuous assessment is very different to BTEC continuous assessment. Maybe she would enjoy editing technical books, or even writing them? Or medical/technical journalism?

    ReplyDelete
  32. Yes, I do agree about the OU - we may well pursue that post A level; sadly anything that is to do with writing probably won't be her thing ( 4th attempt at GCSE English currently underway!) - she is a bit of a complex mixture!

    ReplyDelete
  33. Peter said, 'Anti home education teacher Julie says-'

    You're an idiot. And the best possible ammunition Simon needs for his ideas about regulating HE. Why don't you just do everyone a favour and keep quiet?

    ReplyDelete

  34. Peter and Carol said...
    dont you complain to your LA about this? or are you to scared to tell them or maybe you agree that you should pay for all of this for your child? go on wrtie a letter of complaint to you LA you know how much LA like paper work you can ask them to mark it!


    I am not about to do anything on the say-so of a family who do not even know how to use correct grammar and punctuation, who are rude, sarcastic and abusive towards others, and who spend all their time whining and moaning rather than taking action.
    You will win no sympathy from me.

    Now, to address that comment of yours.
    I have absolutely nothing to complain to my LA about. The decision about funding comes from higher up than them. Not to mention that they already offer GCSE exam funding for kids who are known to them 2 years before the GCSE begins. They have an exam center arranged to take HE kids in our area too. Our LA visitors are lovely people who I like very much and although I am not visited, I know them informally.
    As for complaining about the cost; I knew there wasnt funding when I began HE, I have never expected there to be funding so have nothing to complain about.

    ReplyDelete
  35. "I have never known an adult studying for an OU course to do so. In fact, it is a point of honour with most adults doing an OU course not to do this."

    You may not have known an adult studying at degree level to cheat, but I assure you it happens. Businesses are based on it!

    http://www.ukessays.com/
    http://alicerosebell.wordpress.com/2010/11/15/the-plagiarism-business/

    Obviously this isn't specific to the OU. Other universities use continuous assessment too.

    ReplyDelete
  36. 'You may not have known an adult studying at degree level to cheat, but I assure you it happens.'

    I don't doubt this for a moment. I was making the point that while cheating of this sort is pretty much the norm with teenagers studying, it seems to be much rarer with adults who are studying. This suggests to me that this is a phenomenon which is commoner with children than adults. This does not of course mean that every child cheats and that no adult does.

    ReplyDelete
  37. It wasn't the norm at my child's college when they studied for GCSEs. From what was said, very few parents paid any attention at all to their child's studies!

    At least two businesses run on the strength of adult's cheating. It can't be that rare. Are you sure you're not wearing rose tinted glasses in both the interest many parent's have in their child's education and in how much faith to put in a person's degree?

    http://www.oxbridgeessays.com/about.php

    "Since 2006, Oxbridge Essays™ has been the UK's largest and leading provider of guaranteed Upper 1st, 1st Class and 2:1 essays and dissertations, custom written by academics from Oxford University and The University of Cambridge.

    Our specialist academic writing services are available for undergraduate, Masters, MBA and PhD students, and in addition to essays and dissertations we offer specialist custom services such as private tutorials, editing, personal statements, and more besides.

    As featured in The Times, The Guardian, The Independent, The Telegraph and other leading British newspapers, we have helped thousands of students to improve their degree grades and thus secure better graduate jobs with higher salaries, or postgraduate degree places."

    ReplyDelete
  38. "Getting into university in this way is not particularly common."

    Have you checked the statistics for this? The most recent I've found so far is that 77% of UK domicile students in 2002/3 entered UK universities with GCE A levels, SCE highers & equivalent. So less than 77% needed A levels and SCE highers to gain entry to university. The rest had A level equivalent qualifications (BTEC nationals would be included in the 77%), access courses, HE credits, graduate qualifications (only 1.8%), just GCSEs, other or no qualifications.

    Can 23% of entrants be classed as, 'not particularly common'?

    ReplyDelete
  39. BTW, the above figures are for full time UK students only. If we look at part time UK students the A-level figure drops to 11%.

    ReplyDelete
  40. Sorry, those figures were for the 2003/04 year not 02/03. They were taken from the Higher Education Statistics Agency web site.

    ReplyDelete
  41. C says-I am not about to do anything on the say-so of a family who do not even know how to use correct grammar and punctuation, who are rude, sarcastic and abusive towards others, and who spend all their time whining and moaning rather than taking action.
    You will win no sympathy from me.

    OMG we failed the grammer test! report us at once to HCC!
    as for action we have taken plenty unlike you! your such a good subject not expecting anything or help for home education. Im afraid we not good subjects and od expect a high level of service form ALL civil servant after all we do pay there wages! no wonder you get on so well with your LA you dont want anything from them no wonder there like you if only more home educaotrs could be like you expecting nothing!

    ReplyDelete