One of the regular objections made by teachers and other professions in the field of education to the idea of home education is that one or two untrained people cannot replicate all that modern schools provide. This is quite true of course; they can’t. How could I ever have found the time for the endless risk assessments and drawing up of policy documents? There were no CRB checks, no Ofsted inspections. We had no cleaners in the evening to straighten the place up and prepare it for the next day, nor did we hold regular staff meetings or arrange Inset days. We had no staff room, no proper facilities for sport, no laboratories, the child was left unsupervised for long periods of time because we did not arrange a supply teacher to cover my absences due to shopping and so on. From a school point of view; the enterprise was a disaster waiting to happen.
I posted a link a short while ago to a family who live round the corner from me in Buckhurst Hill. This mother is doing A levels with her kids very successfully. She used to be an opera singer. Others with no background at all in education do GCSEs. The whole notion that one needs a school to do these things is of course nonsense.
The one thing which I have a slight doubt about is how the personality of home educated children turns out after spending so much time in adult, rather than children’s company. This factor is pretty much the same whether the education has been structured or unstructured. The less time that children have spent at school, the more likely they are to present as a little strange and atypical, at least compared with other young people who have attended school. Those who are deregistered at the age of twelve or thirteen seem OK, but I have to say that young people who have never been to school often come across as a bit odd. Not necessarily a bad ’odd’, but odd none the less. They speak differently, dress differently, often have their hair done differently; they are just a bit…different. This is not of course a bad thing in itself, just something I have noticed.
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Mmm...my kid at college (never went to school) has a mohican, which attracts a lot of attention. He likes standing out from the crowd and is a natural perfomer. It hasn't handicapped him in any way. His tutors love him and he's very popular. No problem there.
ReplyDeleteBTW, his parents DON'T have mohicans. LOL!
It's not just Home Educated people who are like that either, I've very rarely bonded well with peers, always feeling more comfortable with younger children or older people. Was a bit of a problem at university but less so out in the real world. To be honest though, from the age of 14 I treated school as optional anyway...
ReplyDeleteIs this something you noticed since Lowrie Turner said the same about you daughter and her fashion sense on The Right Stuff?
ReplyDeleteIf my children are odd because they stand up to bullying, they don't care what others think of them, and don't rate or give in to peer pressure, then yes, mine are odd.
If odd means they have never thrown a tantrum, or mithered me in the shops for this chocolate or that bag of crisps and don't use bad language, then yes they are odd.
If odd means a six year old who taught himself to read entirely on his own, and is currently enjoying the Artemis Fowl series of books, then yes I suppose so.
If a child starting to studying GCSE Biology at age 11 is odd, then yes. If a child of 8 can recite every word of every animated movie he owns verbatim, and that is considered odd, then again, I suppose so.
If it is odd that a child is compassionate towards animals and human alike from toddler age, and will stand up to unkindness, then yes.
If being able to hold an intelligent conversation with any person of any age, using correct Queens English and no slang is odd, then yes, mine are.
I tell you what, I would take my odd kids any day over what the school system churns out.
Everyone's odd in some way or another - people just hide it to a greater or lesser degree.
ReplyDeleteLife's not a competition (I know some people think it is - I don't) so I'm really not interested in ranking children. I'm just happy to share my life with the lovely children I have. I don't expect them to be 'better' than school educated children. I don't expect them to be 'odder' than school educated children. I'm just happy if they are happy. Equally, I love my nephews and nieces who go to school and don't like to see home educators generalising about schooled children any more than school parents generalising about home educators.
@Allie
ReplyDeleteWhen 1 in 5 school leavers is functionally illiterate and innumerate, it is more a statement of fact than a generalisation.
To say that everyone is odd in some way or another, and that they 'just like to hide it' - now that is a generalisation!
"To say that everyone is odd in some way or another, and that they 'just like to hide it' - now that is a generalisation!"
ReplyDeleteWell, I'd say that's a statement of fact. 'Odd' defies a tight definition and I'd say it applies to every human being I've ever met!
The generalisation I was objecting to was this,
"what the school systems churns out". I don't think that's an appropriate way to talk about children/ young people for two reasons. One, you can't possibly claim that all the people "churned out" by the system are the same - they aren't. And, more importantly, those are people, not things, so should at least be afforded the respect of being called "who" not "what"...
I am not sure that being home educated makes a child odd, I know of many many odd 'schooled'kids.
ReplyDeleteI guess what being around adults does is enables a child to talk to poeple of all ages without fear of negativity, they tend to feel like an equal rather than a minor, they tend to put their veiws forward assuming they will be listened to and generally use older language and show interests of those older than they are.
I don't think these are bad things or odd, but I guess compared with the sheep-mentality of a lot of teens who would rather not try too hard at school and who think a good day out is laying on a beach or getting stoned with mates then I guess it could seem a little odd.
@Allie
ReplyDeleteLol, just because you'd say it applies to every human being YOU have ever met, does not make it fact. Something subjective, like defining 'odd' cannot be fact! All it says really is that you hang around with 'odd' people.
Nobody is claiming that everyone 'churned out' by the system is the same, only that I would rather have my 'odd' kids any day over that.
If I had been referring specifically to the children, I would have said so. In fact I referred to 'what' as an example of the education, moral lessons, peer pressure, and so on. Not a whisper about children.
Perhaps you should read posts a second time before you jump to conclusions and start spouting of with self-righteous nonsense?
Wooo, that's me told then. ;-)
ReplyDeleteBy 'odd' do you mean rude, ill mannered and quite arrogant?
ReplyDeleteI've met some of them and guess what?
Their parents were the same or even worse and even encouraged such behaviour as something to be proud of.
And this behaviour is peculiar to home educated children and their parents? It's not a description I recognise for the majority of home educators I know.
ReplyDeleteYou're either lying or in denial. Some of the anti school comment made on here indicate a culture of arrogance and bigotry in the HE community.
ReplyDeleteAllie, I have to say I really agree with all you say about life not being a competition. I'm in the privileged position of knowing many young adults who have gone to university of started work after being home educated, and what strikes me about them is what warm, lovely, well balanced and sociable young people they are. They mix well with people their own age, and us older adults, and seem to know how to have fun without being drunk. They may be different from a lot of people in their late teens/early twenties, but they don't seem odd. Most have stories to tell about college tutors expecting them to have social difficulties and being surprised by their social confidence and popularity.
ReplyDeleteChristine
'You're either lying or in denial. Some of the anti school comment made on here indicate a culture of arrogance and bigotry in the HE community.'
ReplyDeleteCould you give an eg of 'anti-school' comments? I think it's mostly pro-HE, isn't it?
If you are a teacher in a school, then I can understand your reluctance to see how powerful and effective HE can be. I taught in the state sector before having my children and I remember how outrageous the idea of HE felt to me before my own child was failed by the state system.
There can be an issue with a small group of HE children and their parents being rude and I have encountered that at some HE events. However, this is also common when large groups of schoolchildren get together.
'They mix well with people their own age, and us older adults, and seem to know how to have fun without being drunk.'
ReplyDeleteSo true, Christine. It wasn't a particular aim of my kids' HE, but it's been a wonderful side-benefit. LOL!
Why don't you go back through the archives yourself?
ReplyDeleteBetter still look above...
"I tell you what, I would take my odd kids anyday over what the school system churns out."
That's an anti school comment.
"When 1 in 5 school leavers is functionally illiterate and innumerate, it is more a statement of fact than a generalisation."
That means 4 out of 5 aren't, and could mean that 1 in 5 schoolchildren come from a home where the parents are at fault. Or, 1 in 5 might have learning disabilities or be from an immigrant household.
The BNP attempted to use that statistic too.
You sound very angry about home education.
ReplyDeleteYou sound very bigoted against schools and schoolchildren.
ReplyDeleteMe :'If you are a teacher in a school, then I can understand your reluctance to see how powerful and effective HE can be. I taught in the state sector before having my children and I remember how outrageous the idea of HE felt to me before my own child was failed by the state system.
ReplyDeleteThere can be an issue with a small group of HE children and their parents being rude and I have encountered that at some HE events. However, this is also common when large groups of schoolchildren get together.'
Your comment: 'You sound very bigoted against schools and schoolchildren.'
What an odd reaction. Which part of my comments seemed bigoted to you?
As a trained teacher, what was it that you found 'outrageous' about the 'idea' of HE?
ReplyDeleteSurely you were familiar with A.S Neill, Maslow and humanism.
I always felt more at ease talking to adults while growing up. I went to school but I'm odd. So are a numbers of people I know who have never heard of home ed. I think if you are odd it doesn't matter whether you go to school or not. Now, HE children may be different in the sense they are not, and never have been, part of a "herd". Eli
ReplyDeleteWell...like it or not there are a number of the HE community who are very keen to see a herd like mentality established,
ReplyDeleteThe bigotry was all in the way you compared HE as successful and school as failure. Obviously oblivious to the holist model too.
ReplyDelete"You're either lying or in denial. Some of the anti school comment made on here indicate a culture of arrogance and bigotry in the HE community. "
ReplyDeleteI'm not denying that these comments happen and I don't like them any better than you. But I'm just making the point that this type of behaviour has nothing to do with home education per se and does not reflect the majority of home educators in my experience. You can see very similar comments against home educators after any online newspaper article about HE, for instance. You see similar comments by different people about all topics from all walks of life. It's a human behaviour, not a home educator behaviour.
"Some of the anti school comment made on here indicate a culture of arrogance and bigotry in the HE community. "
ReplyDeleteI'm not denying that these comments happen and I don't like them any better than you. But I'm just making the point that this type of behaviour has nothing to do with home education per se and does not reflect the majority of home educators in my experience. You can see very similar comments against home educators after any online newspaper article about HE, for instance. You see similar comments by different people about all topics from all walks of life. It's a human behaviour, not a home educator behaviour.
Sorry for the repeat, Blogger is playing up again and deleting posts. Then un-deleting them.
ReplyDeleteI think that doing anything which is not the demographic 'norm' is likely to make a child seem odd to other children in some ways - basically, it's the 'oddness' that comes from valuing things differently than the mainstream.
ReplyDeleteChildren who work intensively on a hobby or sport (pre-professional dance or music students or serious football players are the ones that come to mind, but the 'oddest'teenager in this sense I have met was a serious hobbyist filmmaker!), children whose religious beliefs differ from their peers and those raised in rural areas who later move elsewhere are often seen as 'odd' in the same way.
I think we shouldn't be worried about 'oddness' of this type at all. The only 'oddness' that should worry us that which seriously hinders the child (i.e., true 'oddness' caused either by fear of parental abuse or by an actual disorder.)
'The bigotry was all in the way you compared HE as successful and school as failure.'
ReplyDeleteI'm bigoted because my child was failed by school and thrived when they were educated at home?
That's a very strange description of bigotry.
'You can see very similar comments against home educators after any online newspaper article about HE, for instance.'
ReplyDeleteQuite.
Or in teachers' forums.
Go and look up a definition of 'bigotry'.
ReplyDeleteIn your case it's ideological bigotry.
'Go and look up a definition of 'bigotry'.
ReplyDeleteIn your case it's ideological bigotry.'
I'm honestly absolutely baffled as to what you are talking about.
If I prefer wholewheat pasta to ordinary pasta am I idealogically bigoted about pasta?
My professional experience (extensive) in different forms of education, as well as my own child's experiences with both school and home education, have led me to be believe that HE was better for her.
I can only conclude that you have mistakenly attributed some other anonymous's comments above to me.
'Experience(extensive)in different forms of education....'
ReplyDeleteI doubt that you have.
>>>'Experience(extensive)in different forms of education....'
ReplyDeleteI doubt that you have. <<<
Oh dear. How old are you? You sound like a teenager with a silly grievance against home educators.
Here's what I've already said to you,
' I taught in the state sector before having my children and I remember how outrageous the idea of HE felt to me before my own child was failed by the state system.'
I'm curerently teaching in the independent sector. In between those two forms of education I taught my own children for 15 years.
You 'doubt it' so that you can continue to call me names such as 'bigot' without having to feel gulty.
{sigh} I've tried to engage with you, but clearly you have 'issues'. Moving on now...
dear me..
ReplyDeleteWas that a flounce or a strop?
ReplyDelete'Loz said...
ReplyDeletedear me..'
Not helpful, dear. Did nobody ever tell you how unwise it is to involve yourself in other people's private quarrels? See Proverbs 26:17 in the Bible to see the likely consequence of such actions.
Simon.
I think that you gave the game away when you claimed to find the idea of HE outrageous..you never were a teacher, you failed to understand my reference to Neill and Maslow.
ReplyDelete