I wrote a while ago that in some local authority areas, the majority of known parents whose children are not in school are from the Gypsy/Roma/Traveller community. Those who have been following the series on Channel 4 at 8 o'clock on Tuesdays will have been horrified to see examples of the attitude towards girls. The programme is called Big Fat Gypsy Weddings. There have been several casual asides which left me absolutely breathless. For example, the presenter mentioned in passing that Gypsy girls usually leave school at eleven. We are not talking here about travelling communities who are moving about in caravans, but families living in houses in West London. Tonight's programme details the view in this community that literacy and education are not really important for girls. It shows a thirteen year old girl who is leaving school in order to do housework.
That in this day and age it is possible to take children from school in this way and make no provision for their education is shocking. I say nothing of the sight last week of a six year-old girl getting a spray tan and then dressing in a mini skirt and boob tube. I can already hear the cries of 'cultural sensitivity'. Working as I do in Hackney, I am familiar with this excuse for turning a blind eye to cruelty and neglect. I have observed that 'cultural sensitivity' always seems to entail ignoring the mistreatment of females. Eleven year old girls being denied an education in the Gypsy community, female genital mutilation among those of African heritage, forced marriage of Pakistani girls, wife-beating by Muslims.
I recommend all readers to watch the programme tonight and judge for themselves whether the thirteen year-old girl featured is happy to have her schooling stopped and whether or not she is likely to receive an education at home. That a blind eye is being turned towards this is scandalous and I have already made a few complaints to the relevant local authorities, asking what on earth is wrong with them that they are tolerating this sort of thing. Home education is one thing; taking a child from school to keep house is something else entirely. I now await the agonised hand-wringing and protestations of the middle class, white liberals who object to anybody asking any questions about any child taken from school.
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wife-beating by Muslims.
ReplyDeleteWife beating occurs in all races its got nothing to do with race!
'Wife beating occurs in all races its got nothing to do with race!'
ReplyDeleteWell of course Islam isn't a race, but a religion. I was drawing attention to the fact that in certain areas, the police will not pursue vigorously allegations of wife-beating, but leave the 'community' to deal with it. They are keen on doing this in Muslim areas in the name of 'cultural sensitivity'. If I knocked my wife about, I would be taken to the police station. In the London Borough of Tower hamlets, the police will sometimes allow the matter to be dealt with under Sharia.
As far as domestic violence in Muslim families goes, here is a link which explains how things have been going in the last year or two;
ReplyDeletehttp://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article4749183.ece
That in this day and age it is possible to take children from school in this way and make no provision for their education is shocking.
ReplyDeleteso who cares? most people dont!
I agree with your comments above about the situation among some Roma and other groups, and would add that there are similar practices fairly common among some types of "Christian" home educating families in the US, Canada, Australia, and NZ. I am sure there are some here as well.
ReplyDeleteThat should be of much more concern to home educating families, since the Roma families who remove daughters from school to work are clearly different from 'real' home educators in the eyes of anyone with common sense - they also make no claims to have removed daughters from school to educate them.
Home educators who follow curriculums like this:
http://www.homeschoolradioshows.com/FarAboveRubies/
Or this:
http://www.visionforum.com/beautifulgirlhood/
...to prepare their daughters for early 'Christian courtship' and motherhood are more dangerous, since anyone without experience of home ed that has seen one of these families (well spoken, in clean, orderly homes, practicing a "structured" home education meant to give a "PhD in home-making" but no other skills beyond basic arethmatic and religious doctrine) is likely to be suspicious of every home educating family seen thereafter.
'more dangerous, since anyone without experience of home ed that has seen one of these families (well spoken, in clean, orderly homes, practicing a "structured" home education meant to give a "PhD in home-making" but no other skills beyond basic arethmatic and religious doctrine) is likely to be suspicious of every home educating family seen thereafter'
ReplyDeleteThis is of course absolutely true. I am aware that this goes on a lot in the States, but I can only hope that it is rare in this country.
Okay... diverging here - but I don't equate either of the two so called curriculums above with what the anon of that post is saying. For example, having just looked at the Far Above Rubies stuff, it clearly says about the need to add "higher maths" to the curriculum so it is not about only bothering with basic arithmetic for girls.
ReplyDeleteI do have some reservations about any difference in the academic standards of girls/boys (my feeling being that even if the women never need academic qualifications because they mey never have a career outside the home, all children deserve and should have the best educated parents they can - and that is especially important for mothers who will spend the most time with the children). However I am also sure "home making skills" are a good thing that also ought to be part of education!
All this though is worlds away from stopping anything that really resembles education for a girl at 13, which appears to be Simon's point about the traveller family mentioned.
Julie...
ReplyDeleteThe 'Rubies' curric. mentions the idea that one _can_ add higher maths if one likes, but the math in the curriculum (which the families I've encountered use alone and don't supplement) contains basic math and nothing beyond that.
The page also mentions that parents _can_ remove all secular-publisher material if they like. The way these lessons are set up, it is perfectly possible for a girl to earn all the 'secondary education credits' she needs to 'finish' without doing much beyond religious reading, courtship/marriage prep, and 'in-depth analysis' of housework.
Almost all of the users of this curriculum and the other linked are part of extreme Christian movements - (the second link is from Vision Forum, the GTR curriculum comes from a related ministry.) My impression is that it's very rare for families to add math, science, or any secular subject to this type of curriculum - families in this movement don't believe in further-higher education for girls, not even at Christian colleges.
My point is only that there are many people who deny education to their daughters: these types are the most dangerous because they claim to be perfectly unexceptional home educators, and often present themselves as _typical_ home educators, while providing what you correctly describe as 'something resembling an education.'
Truly neglectful parents (like the Roma family described) are more forthright about saying "we don't believe in educating our girls!"...so they are unlikely to cast quite such a bad light on actual home educators.
"Truly neglectful parents (like the Roma family described) are more forthright about saying "we don't believe in educating our girls!"...so they are unlikely to cast quite such a bad light on actual home educators."
ReplyDelete- possibly, although I am less concerned about what people "think" and more about what actually happens - ie about education. I do vaguely know quite a few "supporters" of the sort of Vision Forum ideas, although I must confess that I haven't spent anytime really looking into the details, except I know that it promotes some ideas which I would be comfortable with (but I am certainly not comfortable with the idea of depriving a proper education to girls). Whether such extreme views are widepread in the UK I am uncertain about- it is one thing to encourage home making skills etc but that shouldn't be in exclusion to a thorough all round education.
Would an education that does not include higher maths foreclose higher maths to that person in future? No. How much higher maths did I remember a few years after taking the A level? Very little. Different people have different views about education. If we encourage government to become involved in defining a suitable education, they are likely to take the easy option and specify the National Curriculum. After all, it's already laid out and written by 'experts', so why reinvent the wheel?
ReplyDeleteSo not only do you believe what you read in the Daily Express you now believe some " reality " Channel 4 show. Do you watch the Jeremy Kyle show ? Or maybe Oprah?
ReplyDeleteSimon you are easily convinced when it suits you to be.
'A normal Person said...
ReplyDeleteSo not only do you believe what you read in the Daily Express you now believe some " reality " Channel 4 show. Do you watch the Jeremy Kyle show ? Or maybe Oprah?
Simon you are easily convinced when it suits you to be.'
Well of course I have written about this topic several times before; my information is not based upon this television programme. I drew the attention of others to it, because it confirms things that I have said here, things which have been vehemently denied by those commenting.
Our local radio station has just interviewed an irate gypsy who pointed out that it's primarily about Irish travellers, not Roma gypsies and they have totally different cultures. He also went on to point out that it's not particularly representative of what he knows of Irish travellers either.
ReplyDeleteSuch programmes are made to draw in the viewers, any resemblance to the truth is purely coincidental.
Whatever the precise ethnicity of the families involved, local authorities are turning a blind eye to children being taken out of school and denied an education. Whether they are Irish Travellers or Romanies does not really matter; the fact is that this is happening. It does not just happen in the areas covered by this programme, it is pretty common in Est Anglia as well.
ReplyDelete