It is curious that the term 'coercive' education or learning should be used in a pejorative sense, as many home educating parents in this country seem to do. I can offhand think of no better way to introduce children to a wide variety of new ideas and experiences.
Before we go any further, a personal anecdote. A few years ago the local authority had money to spare for activities for young people during the summer holidays. These ranged from archery and kayaking to assertiveness training and musical workshops. My daughter signed up for everything she could. Unfortunately, so few children wanted to do some of these things that they had to be cancelled. this, despite the fact that they were all completely free and local kids are always moaning that there is nothing to do round here. I took the trouble to ask a few young people why they had not signed up for these activities and the answers were very revealing. 'I'm no good at sports', 'I can't act', 'I've never done anything like that before', 'I'm not musical' were all typical responses, in addition to the predictable, 'I wouldn't know anybody there'. In other words, some of these kids rejected new experiences because they were new and others didn't like the idea because they felt it might be something which they wouldn't be any good at. Had this programme been laid on during the term as part of a school project and the kids given no choice about participating, many of them would have thoroughly enjoyed themselves and perhaps found new interests and hobbies. This often happens when children are not given the option about whether or not they join in something.
An awful lot of people first acquire a taste for Shakespeare, Dickens or other great literature at school. They are not consulted about this, they simply have to study these writers and learn about their works. As a result, many a child has come to love literature and the theatre. A lot of these children would have declined to read Charles Dickens if they were offered a choice, or refused to watch a play by Shakespeare. Because they were not given the choice, they have become familiar with the works and come to appreciate them. In the same way, many children have found a love of art or music, history or mathematics, by being exposed to them as part of an education over which they were able to exercise no control at all. This also happens in some home educating families of the more structured type; it is not limited to schools.
The younger that this exposure to a wide range of academic and other activities occurs, the better. Many young children, even by the time they enter formal education, have a visceral distaste for certain things. For example many dislike anything which smacks of high culture; opera, classical music, theatre and so on. Many of these children would never voluntarily take part in anything like this, although many enjoy these activities when they actually do encounter Shakespeare and Beethoven. Others don't like books and reading or feel that they will find history boring, mathematics difficult and so on. A number of these children will, because they have been given no choice in the matter, find that they enjoy reading and history and go on to become enthusiastic about them.
These childish prejudices can become entrenched if not tackled young and it is as well that they are dealt with at a very early age. Otherwise the result can be an adult who says, 'I've never liked books' or 'I've always been hopeless at art'. It is only by being exposed to all these things and taking part in them when young that they are likely to overcome these feelings. Allowing a child who says that she does not like sums to avoid mathematics, or a child who claims to dislike books to avoid reading, will allow these childish feelings to become lifelong and irrational prejudices: something which I have no doubt happens frequently with children who have been educated autonomously and allowed to avoid academic subjects and experiences which they claim to dislike.
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I do dislike the term "coercive" - I must confess that I had never heard it used in terms of either parenting/education until coming across home educators on the internet. I am clearly a coercive educator and also a coercive parent....I believe that part of being a parent is taking responsibility for the child and ultimately making decisions until the child is clearly adult enough to understand the consequences of their own actions. So for us, choices about whether to study core subjects were made by an adult, not the child. In the same way our children don't have a choice about things like bedtimes or cleaning their teeth until they are old enough to understand the consequences of their actions and live with them.
ReplyDeleteThat isn't to say that there is no negotiation.
I am not going to force my 15 year old to do french at A level, for example- because she clearly doesn't want to/need to...she is old enough to have choices about her own future. She will be doing A levels though- she wants to so there is no need to negotiate or insist.Likewise she often goes to bed too late nowadays; because she understands that by doing so she a) mustn't disturb others b) must still get up at the necessary time (for example today she must be up in time to go to church.) Some principles are not negotiable however, whatever the age, and they must be abided by if the family member wants to remain living in the family home. So as we are obviously highly coercive parents, that spreads into education too - seems to work though!
It's true that many children do find they enjoy things they weren't previously aware of until they had no option but to try them at school. It's equally true that many other children are completely put off a lot of things by having no option but to try them at school - as your anecdote about leisure activities suggests.
ReplyDeleteI was useless at team games throughout school - from 5 until I was about 15. I started to enjoy them only when our church youth club (no coercion to attend or participate, note) introduced a daft game called crocker involving a baseball bat and a rugby ball. A couple of friends and I (all of us found it difficult) practised this game on our own for a few evenings and improved dramatically. I then found I was OK at tennis doubles (playing during the lunch break) and netball (optional in the sixth form). These optional sessions were with people I knew and trusted, who were about as bad as I was, and were taken at my own pace. Compulsory games, at the teachers' pace, had been an utterly miserable experience up to that point.
That's why I can see the point of a broad curriculum, and encouragement to participate, but not coercion, because there's a significant downside.
"I do dislike the term "coercive" - I must confess that I had never heard it used in terms of either parenting/education until coming across home educators on the internet."
ReplyDeleteJust a minor point of possible interest, but I first heard of 'coercive' in relation to parenting and education via the EO newsletter and subsequently the Taking Children Seriously newsletter (the paper version!), well before I bought my first computer in 1994.
Simon wrote,
ReplyDelete"The younger that this exposure to a wide range of academic and other activities occurs, the better. Many young children, even by the time they enter formal education, have a visceral distaste for certain things."
Isn't this largely gained as a result of family attitudes though? If a family has this attitude how likely is it that they will go out of their way to teach their child the subject in an interesting way if they make any attempt at all? You seem to be making an argument against home education for families that dislike certain things (such as Shakespeare, classical music, etc).
"Isn't this largely gained as a result of family attitudes though?"
ReplyDeleteSometimes. Sometimes a child froma home withjpout any sort of interest in culture will encounter the classics at school and become hooked. There are professors like this who grew up on council estates and have school to thank for their careers in academia.
"You seem to be making an argument against home education for families that dislike certain things (such as Shakespeare, classical music, etc)."
Not at all. I dislike Shakespeare myself, but ensured that my daughter acquired a taste for him, a taste which is now a big part of her life. I am arguing for home education which offers the same type of broad exposure to culture and education as the best type of school.
"I am arguing for home education which offers the same type of broad exposure to culture and education as the best type of school."
ReplyDeleteBut what if your choice of culture and education is different to mine or different to my child's? If the child spends the same amount of time learning, why is a school's choice of subjects intrinsically better than mine or my child's?
"An awful lot of people first acquire a taste for Shakespeare, Dickens or other great literature at school. They are not consulted about this, they simply have to study these writers and learn about their works. As a result, many a child has come to love literature and the theatre."
ReplyDeleteI love literature but have never read or attended a Shakespeare play. I don't think I've read Dickens either. One of my children read Shakespeare for GCSE English but I didn't have to force them to do this or even do it with them. One of my other children has read Dickens and many other classics by choice. Why do you think it's necessary to be forced to read Shakespeare in order to have a love of literature? Strange idea.
BTW, what percentage of children who have been forced to read the classics do you think go on to read anything for pleasure, let alone the classics? Where is you evidence that coercion produces higher reading for pleasure rates in adults than free choice? I assume you have some evidence to support this claim as you cannot abide sloppy thinking.
" why is a school's choice of subjects intrinsically better than mine or my child's?"
ReplyDeleteIt isn't necessarily. The point is that in schools a good deal of thought is given to the process. In many homes, there is a default setting and the child is exposed only to the music, books, art and academic subjects which are natural for her parents. This can lead to a restricted world-view. In many homes where the parents don't care for baroque music, one will seldom hear Correlli or Vivaldi. A child might therefore miss out on this aspect of culture simply becuase the parents don't think about it. Similarly, if the parents interests run to art, then the child might miss out on physics and chemistry, just becuase these are not really the parents' thing. This can be a particular risk for children educated at home.
"Why do you think it's necessary to be forced to read Shakespeare in order to have a love of literature? Strange idea."
ReplyDeleteI don't think so at all! I was using Shakespeare and Dickens merely as examples, one could easily substitute Marlowe or Ibsen, Thackeray or Collins.
"Where is you evidence that coercion produces higher reading for pleasure rates in adults than free choice?"
The best evidence lies in the fact that many people love reading for pleasure and all but a handful have been to school where they were forced to read. It seems to work OK in producing people who enjoy reading.
Simon wrote,
ReplyDelete"In many homes, there is a default setting and the child is exposed only to the music, books, art and academic subjects which are natural for her parents."
But part of autonomous education is giving your child access to a wide variety of resources and experiences. I cannot see why an autonomous education would tend to be more restrictive than a structured education.
Simon wrote,
"A child might therefore miss out on this aspect of culture simply becuase the parents don't think about it."
My children have all enjoyed interests that I know nothing at all about so I don't think this is necessarily true. I didn't lay these interests in front of them, they found them during HE visits and activities, as a result of browsing through libraries, museums, second-hand book and charity shops, ideas from friends and members of their wider families, etc. Can you honestly claim that you covered all aspects of culture with your child?
Simon wrote,
"Similarly, if the parents interests run to art, then the child might miss out on physics and chemistry, just becuase these are not really the parents' thing."
This has not been my experience at all as I mention above. All of my children have several interests that I know little about apart from what they have taught me during discussions.
Simon wrote,
"I don't think so at all! I was using Shakespeare and Dickens merely as examples, one could easily substitute Marlowe or Ibsen, Thackeray or Collins."
OK then, why do you think it's necessary to be forced to read classical literature (or anything else) in order to have a love of literature?
I asked,
"Where is you evidence that coercion produces higher reading for pleasure rates in adults than free choice?"
and Simon replied,
"The best evidence lies in the fact that many people love reading for pleasure and all but a handful have been to school where they were forced to read. It seems to work OK in producing people who enjoy reading."
Yet according to the Children's attitudes to reading study (Sainsbury, M. 2004), children's enjoyment of reading declined significantly between 1998 and 2003 despite increased confidence in reading skills.
According to the Literacy Trust, freedom to choose reading materials is an important element in promoting a love of reading along with a print-rich environment, access to a variety of texts, encouragement and a quite, comfortable place to read. They say that schools need to implement a reading programme that will make reading an activity that is actively sought out by students. This seems the opposite approach to the one advocated by you; the coercive imposition of teacher/parent chosen texts.
The Emotional and Academic Consequences of Parental Conditional Regard: Comparing Conditional Positive Regard, Conditional Negative Regard, and Autonomy Support as Parenting Practices
ReplyDeleteGuy Roth and Avi Assor
Ben Gurion, University of the Negev
Christopher P. Niemiec, Richard M. Ryan, and Edward L. Deci, University of Rochester
The authors conducted 2 studies of 9th-grade Israeli adolescents (169 in Study 1, 156 in Study 2) to compare the parenting practices of conditional positive regard, conditional negative regard, and autonomy support using data from multiple reporters. Two socialization domains were studied: emotion control and academics. Results were consistent with the self-determination theory model of internalization, which posits that (a) conditional negative regard predicts feelings of resentment toward parents, which then predict dysregulation of negative emotions and academic disengagement; (b) conditional positive regard predicts feelings of internal compulsion, which then predict suppressive regulation of negative emotions and grade-focused academic engagement; and (c) autonomy support predicts sense of choice, which then predicts integrated regulation of negative emotions and interest-focused academic engagement. These findings suggest that even parents’ use of conditional positive regard as a socialization practice has adverse emotional and academic consequences, relative to autonomy support.
Dev Psychol. 2009 Jul;45(4):1119-42.
"These findings suggest that even parents’ use of conditional positive regard as a socialization practice has adverse emotional and academic consequences,"
ReplyDeleteNot really, without defining what the authors mean by the word 'academic'. They compare 'grade-focused academic engagement;' with 'interest-focused academic engagement'. They seem to be aying that children who follow their own interests by choice are better at those things than children who please their parents by working hard at school. (I can't bear this jargon of 'parents’ use of conditional positive regard as a socialization practice' Why on earth can't they just talk about kids trying to please their parents and make them proud?)
This might well mean that a child follows her interests in dinosaurs and learns loads about them. The one who is focused upon 'grade focused engagement' might be learning more useful stuff about mathematics and doing this in order to make her parents proud. I'm not sure how the authors managed to compare the academic achievements of children following their own interests in this way, how they measured them. Did they compare exam results or what? I would also be keen to know whether the autonomous group did better or worse at school than the other two. Do you have any more infomation about this?
You need to read the full study; references were provided.
ReplyDeleteDev Psychol. 2009 Jul;45(4):1119-42.
Simon wrote,
ReplyDelete"Not really, without defining what the authors mean by the word 'academic'. They compare 'grade-focused academic engagement;' with 'interest-focused academic engagement'. They seem to be aying that children who follow their own interests by choice are better at those things than children who please their parents by working hard at school."
I think it's OK to quote small sections of a study so I've copied section about measurement of academic engagement:
Teachers’ reports of students’ modes of academic engagement. These scales were modified from Assor, Kaplan, et al. (2005). Three items assess grade-focused engagement. A sample item is “This child often argues for better grades without any attempt to benefit from his/her mistakes.” Two items assessed disengagement. A sample item is “This child does not invest anything in studying.” Factor analyses with varimax rotation revealed separate factors for each mode of academic engagement, and eigenvalues ranged from 2.0 to 3.2, all factor loadings were above .59, and the two factors accounted for more than 60% of the variance. Cronbach’s alphas were .62 and .85 for grade-focused engagement and disengagement, respectively. Because participants were nested within six classrooms and two schools, it was important to test for class and school effects. To do so, we computed the intraclass correlation (ICC) using hierarchical linear modeling (HLM), Version 6.02. The ICC was not significant for either measure rated by teachers.
Simon wrote,
"(I can't bear this jargon of 'parents’ use of conditional positive regard as a socialization practice' Why on earth can't they just talk about kids trying to please their parents and make them proud?)"
I suspect it's partly to distinguish the normal behaviour of children who want to please their parents and the normal response of parents to things that please them, from parents who actively attempt to manipulate this normal behaviour by exaggerating praise and happiness (or disappointment and punishment if they take the negative route) in order to encourage the behaviour they want. Would this be behaviourism, a bit like Pavlov and his dogs?
It might be and behaviourism works well in education. It is certainly possible to condition a child to learn.
ReplyDeleteThough the research seems to support the alternative approach of autonomy support with improved emotional and academic consequences, something autonomous home educators have believed and experienced for a long time. This was the prime reason we chose the autonomous approach. Personal experience of externally directed learning compared to autonomously chosen learning (including academic courses) ourselves demonstrated clearly the superiority of this approach for both enjoyment of the learning experience and quality of outcomes along with a continued enthusiasm for future education. This has since been our experience with our children.
ReplyDeleteAnother study that seems to support intrinsic motivation but sees some value to extrinsic motivation, or at least self-determined extrinsic motivation. The results were compared to similar Western studies and were found to be comparable. It also seems to support the AE theory that excessive extrinsic motivation (such as attempting to please LA inspectors, for instance) damaging intrinsic motivation (see my highlighting with bold text).
ReplyDeleteBritish Journal of Educational Psychology (2009). 79. 713-733
Grade differences in reading motivation among
Hong Kong primary and secondary students
Kit-Ling Lau
The Chinese University of Hong Kong, Shatin, NT, Hong Kong, People's Republic of China
Although intrinsic motivation remains the most important source for motivating Chinese students, findings suggest that students' intrinsic interest in reading gradually decreases as they move to upper grades. It was also found that students experienced a decrease in both intrinsic and extrinsic motivation. While students' intrinsic motivation was undermined by the increasingly competitive and performance-oriented environment in senior grades, students did not respond by becoming more extrinsically oriented, as one study suggested they would (Harter et al, 1992). Instead, students in senior grades appeared to disvalue every reason for reading.... Therefore, the rewards and contingencies provided by parents and schools may lose their power over time. This reason may be especially relevant to students' reading motivation, as adolescents are increasingly exposed to activities that may be seen as more attractive than reading.
Notwithstanding this, although intrinsic motivation is the optimal motivation for student learning, it is unrealistic to expect all reading tasks in school to be interesting and enjoyable. In areas where students lack interest, extrinsic motivation may play an important role in motivating students to learn. .... In the light of self-determination theory (Deci & Ryan, 1985; Ryan & Deci, 2000), besides simply providing external reinforcements, educators should also help students internalize the value of reading and connect its value endogenously to an identified goal. This kind of self-determined extrinsic motivation may be more suitable than extrinsic rewards for mature students (Greene, Miller, Crowson, Duke, & Akey, 2004; Lepper et al, 1997; Miller & Brickman, 2004).
The last part, the linking of learning to an identified goal by a student, fits with may AE parent's experiences where children are willing to learn subjects they are not especially interested in if it enables them to reach a goal they are interested in (such as the necessary qualifications for entry to a desired course, for instance).
Last study, I promise!
ReplyDeleteA Meta-Analytic Review of Experiments Examining the Effects of Extrinsic Rewards on Intrinsic Motivation
By: Deci, Edward L., Koestner, Richard
Psychological Bulletin, 00332909, Nov99, Vol. 125, Issue 6
Results confirm that, for free-choice behavior, there was significant undermining [of intrinsic motivation] by all rewards, tangible rewards, expected rewards, engagement-contingent rewards, completion-contingent rewards, and performance-contingent rewards. Only positive feedback showed enhancement, and only unexpected and task-noncontingent rewards showed no effects.
Interesting age effects also appeared, with the effects of verbal rewards being significantly less positive for children than for college students and with the effects of engagement-contingent rewards being significantly more negative for children than for college students.
"In many homes, there is a default setting and the child is exposed only to the music, books, art and academic subjects which are natural for her parents. This can lead to a restricted world-view."
ReplyDeleteOf course, this would be a coercive household. Parents who are uncoercive offer their children as many choices as possible, and help their children pursue those they find interesting.
The reality is that in uncoercive households, children more often than not, end up pursuing subjects that the parents would never have dreamt of pursuing themselves.
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