A current concern on some of the Internet lists ties in perfectly with my post earlier about the readiness of some home educators to believe any old rubbish as long as it shows a local authority in a bad light. The latest story is that some local authorities, Oldham in the North of England and Ceridigon in Wales have been mentioned, are insisting that home educated children are weighed and measured or forced to see school nurses regularly. I shall be posting more fully on this tomorrow, because these rumours are actually damaging the provision for children with special educational needs, some of whose parents have fought hard to gain access to health services.
In the meantime I will only say this. We used to spend a lot of time in the Brecons until a few years ago and so I know Aberystwyth and so on pretty well. I also know some home educating families there. So as far as the local authority in Ceridigon making home educated children see the school nurse, I can absolutely assure readers that it is a lot of nonsense. The man responsible for Elective Home Education in the district is Stuart Bradley and he may be contacted on 01970-633656. Before ringing him, I spoke to a home educating parent so that I could compare what I was told with what Stuart Bradley said. There was a perfect match. In fact Ceridigon have a policy of not making visits as a routine procedure. When a family comes to their attention, they send out a form and if when it is returned, there does not seem to be anything out of the ordinary, that's it. No visit. They don't want to make visits, because it would mean driving up into the mountains and all over the countryside. The school nurse is available for those parents who specifically request an appointment. Some do and some don't.
This is a typical example of what I was talking about earlier today, in which the home educators work themselves up into an indignant frenzy about nothing. As I say, I shall post more about this topic tomorrow.
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When a family comes to their attention, they send out a form and if when it is returned, there does not seem to be anything out of the ordinary, that's it. No visit.
ReplyDeleteWhat do you mean anything out of the ordinary? that could cover a very wide area! and what does Stuart Bradley think is out of the ordinary?
Have you tried contacting Oldham?
ReplyDelete'the home educators work themselves up into an indignant frenzy about nothing.'
ReplyDeleteThe home educators? You mean about 4-5 people on an internet list.
Mrs Anon
'The home educators? You mean about 4-5 people on an internet list.'
ReplyDeleteThese are the same small group of people who organised the opposition to the Badman review and so on. There may only be a dozen or so posting about these things, but they tend to influence how many ordinary home educators see things.
The majority aren't on email lists and are not interested in HE politics. Most of the people in my local group know little about the things talked about on-line. I think the Badman review was an exception, it has been about the only subject to pass the email list/non-email list barrier to any significant extent in my experience.
ReplyDeleteSimon.
ReplyDeleteYou are falling into a very typical trap in that you are starting to believe that life within the internet reflects life outside. If three people write something on a blog or forum it does not indicate the opinion of the masses.
By all means comment on remarks made on the internet but please do not then tar everyone with the same artistic brush. Your comments smack of Common Purpose to me.
Simon,
ReplyDeleteWhilst some posts may seem unnecessarily alarmist, I would say that they are a thoroughly good thing. The price of freedom is, after all, eternal vigilance and too many HEors have, in the past, been unjustly hounded by the authorities, and autonomous education is so poorly understood, that it is no surprise that HEors remain vigilant to protect their entire way of life which they understand so well and which works for them so brilliantly, and yet which could so easily be entirely ruined for them by autocratic forces.
eg: that list from the Met which included HE and co-sleeping as risk factors for abuse may not have influenced those who wrote it or their immediate colleagues, but it was out on the internet for all to see, and for anyone to draw false conclusions from it and who knows where that would lead. Other neighbours have told me that in the mind of one of our neighours further down the hill, simply by being HEors we are highly likely to be abusing our children. Not long ago, this woman even managed to conclude that I was repeatedly hitting my child in public, when I was in fact, swatting a wasp off her!
We have to combat this sloppy kind of thinking, the failure of the ptb to understand good theories of learning, and the tendency of the ptb to throw their weight around. Maintaining the barriers at a point where people in this country can continue to educate their children autonomously, outside the mainstream will involve keeping a close lookout for any potential abuses of the system by the ptb.
'By all means comment on remarks made on the internet but please do not then tar everyone with the same artistic brush. Your comments smack of Common Purpose to me.'
ReplyDeleteYes, the only flaw in your argument here is that what is being discussed on the Internet HE lists today, often becomes an enduring myth generally among many home educators tomorrow. As I have said, a lot of the nonsense about the Graham Badman review atarted ona few lists and spilled over into the real world.
'Yes, the only flaw in your argument here is that what is being discussed on the Internet HE lists today, often becomes an enduring myth generally among many home educators tomorrow.'
ReplyDeleteMmm..you mean like suggesting that EO and Betsy Anderson 'An American woman' are re-writing the Guidelines on HE? Oh, wait a minute, that nonsense started here.
Mrs Anon
Mrs A - I agree - Simon is certainly no saint.... but he is true about the way that internet lists do spread odd ideas too - such as the stuff about the child weighings which is doing the rounds!
ReplyDeleteRushing off to invigilate RS exam......
julie said...
ReplyDeleteMrs A - I agree - Simon is certainly no saint.... but he is true about the way that internet lists do spread odd ideas too -
was Badman wanting to interview Children on their own an odd idea being spead around? or wanting to gain entry into a private house to see child an odd idea dreamed up by home educators?
'Mmm..you mean like suggesting that EO and Betsy Anderson 'An American woman' are re-writing the Guidelines on HE? Oh, wait a minute, that nonsense started here.'
ReplyDeleteA fair point, Mrs Anon. What is happening here is that most home educating parents who do not belong to the Interent lists do not even know that these new guidelines are in the wind. All the debate is taking place on closed lists and only when the matter has been thrashed out there will a standard opinion emerge, as happened with the Badman review. I aim to make anything which I hear about this business available here on a public space. If I say, 'I have heard so and so's name mentioned' this is not to be taken as gospel truth, but as a rumour I have been told. The alternative might be for nobody outside a few lists to be even aware of what is going on until the matter has been practically arranged.
Julie,
ReplyDeleteYes, odd ideas can originate on the internet. I think we've established that.
When people give new HE'ers advice like, 'You don't need to teach your kids because they will pick up reading by osmosis' or that 'no one needs to do GCSE's because the universities welcome qualification-less young people with open arms' etc, I agree.
I was however pointing out that some nonsense/unsubstantiated roumours ALSO either originate here (HE'ers must be mad) OR get passed on as gossip here (Betsy Anderson is re-writing the guidelines).
If Simon wishes this blog to be taken seriously by people he will need to start setting a higher standard for his posts. Or maybe he doesn't really care? Maybe it's just all a bit of fun or somewhere to get back at people who've been mean to him elsewhere or to have a bit of a rant.
And why not, eh?
It's this switching around from fact to suggestion to implication to gossip that frustrates the heck out of me :-) It's just as bad as 'the lists'.
Mrs Anon
The problem is Mrs Anon, trying to find out what is actually being said, the extent to which it is true and then making the facts avaialable to the public at large. The thing which I said to which you evidently object was;
ReplyDelete'The denial was made on a national email list.'
Which list was that? Another name which has been thrown out is that of Betsy Anderson, an American woman.'
This was because I had been told that Education Otherwise had issued a public denial that it was in any way connected with any of the discussions with Graham Stuart. As soon as I can establish that, I shall cross EO off the list. Somebody emailed me and suggested that Betsy Anderson, who is a home educating parent who studied law at Harvard, might be involved with the talks. I passed this idea on so that anybody who had heard anything could say. In the event, the woman herself has said on a list that she is not, so this seems pretty certain. It is hardly libellous to suggest that somebody is talking to an MP and so I don't think any harm has been done to her reputation.
As far as I can see, this business of the new guidelines is not being discussed in public forums and so I wanted to make this blog available for anybody to say anything about it. There is at the moment nothing but rumour, but this is not stopping some pretty extensive discussions taking place about the desirable form and content of any new guidelines. I want to make sure that any such discussion takes place in the light of day, rather than something being decided by a handful of people on some list and then presented to other parents as being the best thing for them. If that means passing on the rumours as I hear them then so be it.
'As far as I can see, this business of the new guidelines is not being discussed in public forums'
ReplyDeleteReally? It's been dominating BRAG for the last few days and there's been a long Facebook thread about it on Graham Stuart's page.
I do think that the Someone who emailed you suuggesting Betsy A's name ought to have minded their own business a little more. Besty explained on BRAG that she is not involved and due to some family issues has not had any involvement in the HE community for some time and would be continuing that way.
But, for goodness sake, why should she have to defend herself and issue such a denial in the first place? Because silly people with nothing better to do are spreading totally unfounded gossip about her, to you and others, which you pass on.
Just to be clear, I don't know the woman, but I felt sympathy for her having to do that at a time when clearly she felt she needed to be committed to her family.
Speaking of which, I have floors to clean :-)
Mrs Anon
Simon wrote,
ReplyDelete"A fair point, Mrs Anon. What is happening here is that most home educating parents who do not belong to the Interent lists do not even know that these new guidelines are in the wind. All the debate is taking place on closed lists and only when the matter has been thrashed out there will a standard opinion emerge, as happened with the Badman review."
and Simon wrote,
"The problem is that those handful of people on the Internet lists tend to be pretty powerful in shaping opinion among home educators, even the opinions of those who do not hang out on the Internet overmuch. They are a major source of rumour and misinformation."
So information on email lists can both be confined to email lists and spread throughout the home educating community? Make up your mind Simon, both can't be true.
I think often things appear and disappear on the internet as alarms appear new information ends corrects them and generally only the major issues reach those not taking part - such as the Badman review, hence the high response rate to consultations.
"This was because I had been told that Education Otherwise had issued a public denial that it was in any way connected with any of the discussions with Graham Stuart. As soon as I can establish that, I shall cross EO off the list."
ReplyDeleteWhy would you expect people to report directly to you? They had said they are not involved on a national email list - why should they then have to contact you personally when you have already had the message passed on?
'So information on email lists can both be confined to email lists and spread throughout the home educating community? Make up your mind Simon, both can't be true.'
ReplyDeleteThe initial debates about things are often confined to Internet lists. It is often only when the matter has been thrashed out there and a general view reached about whether something is good or bad for home educators that it ends up in general circulation.
'Why would you expect people to report directly to you? They had said they are not involved on a national email list - why should they then have to contact you personally when you have already had the message passed on?'
ReplyDeleteDon't be an idiot, I'm not expecting anything of the sort! I have been told by an anonymous person that EO have said that they are not involved and wish simply to look at this denial muself. Is the name of the place where the denial was made a secret?
Maybe anonymous doesn't want to risk you joining a list they enjoy?
ReplyDelete"Don't be an idiot, I'm not expecting anything of the sort! I have been told by an anonymous person that EO have said that they are not involved and wish simply to look at this denial muself."
ReplyDeleteWhy would you believe them if you don't believe me, idiot? I would be an idiot if I lied about it being on a national list, but I'm not.