Fans of HE-UK, which according to the list owner Mike Fortune-Wood is going from strength to strength, might sometimes notice that everybody there seems in general to be singing from the same sheet. This is a little strange when you have a couple of thousand members. The explanation is fairly simple. We saw a few days ago that somebody asking too many questions is likely to meet with a frosty response and the suggestion that she must be some sort of infiltrator and not somebody with a genuine interest in home education at all. I posted humorously about this yesterday. Readers may have noticed that one of the people who commented light heartedly about my post was Loz, who is herself a member of the HE-UK list under her own name. Incredibly, she has now been thrown off the HE-UK list, presumably for not disagreeing with me strongly enough here!
This is how things often work in the home education world and it is the way in which the appearance of a united front is maintained, promoting a certain orthodox view to which all home educating parents are expected to subscribe. Those who are happy to cooperate with their local authorities are routinely made to feel like Quislings and collaborators; anybody not bitterly opposed to the regulation of home education is not welcome on most lists and forums. Because any dissenting voices are thrown off the lists, as Loz was this morning, it enables some home educating groups to claim that all home educating parents agree with them about everything. How could it be otherwise, when those who even ask too many questions are treated like lepers? That somebody would be thrown out of a major home education support list in this way purely for engaging in a little banter with me here is really quite disturbing. It is not the first time that it has happened though and I don't suppose that it will be the last. The next time that we see a home education group claiming that all their members support this or that point of view, it is worth remembering that maintaining this unanimity has been achieved by chucking out anybody who disagrees!
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Old Webb says-Because any dissenting voices are thrown off the lists, as Loz was this morning,
ReplyDeleteYou been a naughty girl Loz? getting thrown off the list?
Old webb says-Those who are happy to cooperate with their local authorities are routinely made to feel like Quislings and collaborators;
ReplyDeletethis is because LA's will use the fact that a few home educators cooperate to say that all home educators should! Balls?Badman department for education try to say that cos some do all should!
I dont care if you Webb or Loz or any other home educators wants to cooperate with their LA thats up to you but it should not be forced on those home educators that dont want to cooperate?
This sort of censorship and 'gagging' happens regularly withith the HE community sadly. I have encountered it both on-list and in real life. I am so sorry for Loz to have experienced this assuming this is what happened, and I hope she is ok.
ReplyDeleteI can sympathise. I left the list several years ago mainly because I stupidly said I'd bought singapore maths workbooks and was criticised for introducing Math to a four year old. (bad me, *sigh*)Obviously they wern't taking such drastic measures then.... or I beat them too it.
'I left the list several years ago mainly because I stupidly said I'd bought singapore maths workbooks and was criticised for introducing Math to a four year old. '
ReplyDeleteI don't think that you can have been firing on all cylinders that day, C. I have seen people driven off for far less than that!
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrghhhhhhhhhhh!
ReplyDeleteWhat is wrong with these people?
Why is it people can't have an honest debate about HE and educational methods for goodness sake? I even feel I need to be anonymous here.
' I even feel I need to be anonymous here.'
ReplyDeleteAnd who can blame you, Anonymous? It was because Loz was reckless enough to leave clues when commenting here which identified her, that she has been tracked down and banned from the HE-UK list.
C says-I am so sorry for Loz to have experienced this assuming this is what happened, and I hope she is ok.
ReplyDeleteOh do grow up! geting chucked off a list means nothing! take a look around the world to see what really matters? kid starving war problems in Liyba the dreadfull things still going on in the congo Ross Kemp report on it was almost inpossible to watch!
Simon said 'I don't think that you can have been firing on all cylinders that day, C. I have seen people driven off for far less than that!'
ReplyDeleteIt was my first encounter with such bloody-mindedness in my home ed journey, until then I had naively believed it was a school thing. Id only been doing it for around 6mths and it certainly changed my perspective on home educators.
'Oh do grow up! geting chucked off a list means nothing!'
ReplyDeletePeter, most women appreciate being able to belong to a group which is supportive of their choices, especially when they feel they are swimming against the tide by home educating in the first place.
Perhaps you've never needed such support. That's brilliant. But for a large HE group to claim to offer such support and then to deny it to someone, that's despicable.
HE-UK needs to be renamed AE-UK and then the 'wrong people' won't join in the first place.
'HE-UK needs to be renamed AE-UK and then the 'wrong people' won't join in the first place.'
ReplyDeleteVery true.
'It was my first encounter with such bloody-mindedness in my home ed journey, until then I had naively believed it was a school thing.'
ReplyDeleteI did not send my daughter to school for many reasons, one of which was because I wished to avoid certain things; school-gate cliques, stifling orthodoxy in educational techniques and so on. The problem is that these are also present in some parts of the home educating world. I have known people made to feel unwelcome at home education groups because they have their own ideas. Perhaps we need to accept that home education has its own orthodoxy and create a new category of home educators; 'independent' home educators?
And here I am..In all my post-ban glory. :P
ReplyDeleteSeriously, it really isn't an issue. Mike's actions only serve to bolster my opinion of his group, and the majority of the sheep which follow him there, and are too scared to actually speak their minds.
I Home educate, to teach my son..not to gain any status or kudos within the community as far as the other adults are concerned.
If I find something which I disagree with, I will speak out about it, question it and invite debate about it.
So be it, if this makes me shameless or reckless even. But above all else, I am liberated !!
He can try to gag me..but he will fail. Watch this space. :P
Loz
Peter, most women appreciate being able to Anon says-belong to a group which is supportive of their choices, especially when they feel they are swimming against the tide by home educating in the first place.
ReplyDeletePerhaps you've never needed such support. That's brilliant. But for a large HE group to claim to offer such support and then to deny it to someone, that's despicable.
Women want to belong to a List? i would have thought women would prefer to meet in real life other home educating women who teach their children?
I think calling it dispicable is way over the top! take a look at what happens in the congo that is truly dispicable hey look i used a fancy word!
no we dont need a group to tell us how to home educate!
What large list was it? how you join? you have to pay? who runs it? i take a look for myself and see what is going on there!
And here I am..In all my post-ban glory. :P
ReplyDeleteSeriously, it really isn't an issue. Mike's actions only serve to bolster my opinion of his group, and the majority of the sheep which follow him there, and are too scared to actually speak their minds.
Who is Mike? his he a teacher? what did you do to get chuck off this list do tell? i check it out and see what this mike is up to!
you then go on to say-If I find something which I disagree with, I will speak out about it, question it and invite debate about it.
Me to i love to speak out about something such has the rubbish service you get from our LA
Well all I can say is Thank God for your blog Simon. I may not always agree with every one of your points (and you can be extremely irritating occasionally) but at least this blog allows some freedom of speech. Sorry you've been expelled Loz. For what it's worth you're better off out of that rabble anyway, and in actual fact a sizable number do not wait to be thrown out, instead like me, they hardly post or bother with it at all due to the aggressive behaviour and attitude of the regulars. I realised soon after Simon was exorcised that it's only those who sing in the right key who earn the right to be heard there. Those of us who have retained the (rather obnoxious it seems) ability to think for ourselves tend to find ourselves very unwelcome there; mostly because we are getting on with it and hence HE is something we do as opposed to something we are. It's quite sad actually. C Singapore Maths! You were very naive weren't you?!
ReplyDelete@Anonymous Thanks for your kind words. Lesson learned. =P
ReplyDeleteDoes blogging about messages and summarizing their contents count as cross posting? I think it probably does, and if so, this is against list rules (unless you have permission from the posters) so I suppose why you have been removed from the list. A warning and a request not to do it again may have been better approach...
ReplyDeleteMaybe Loz got chucked off for blogging about the contents of the list??? ie breaking the rules???
ReplyDeletehttp://my21stcenturyfamily.blogspot.com/2011/03/paranoia-point-proven.html
I don't know - it's nothing to do with me but, having known of or known Mike for over a decade now, I would be surprised if he chucked someone off for disagreeing with the majority!
He can't chuck Simon off because either he uses a pseudonym or someone forwards him all the posts. Otherwise he would because it is supposed to be a "safe space" where folk can have conversations away from prying eyes and certainly away from public comment.
"I can sympathise. I left the list several years ago mainly because I stupidly said I'd bought singapore maths workbooks and was criticised for introducing Math to a four year old."
ReplyDeleteI'd be interested to know when this happened. I keep hearing about the 'attacks' against people for their choices but have not seen them. Would love to be able to read the discussion so I can make my own mind up.
When we first took the boy out of school I was amazed at the need for home educators to put everyone in a box with a nice little label, I thought I was going to be surrounded by lots of lovely open minded free thinkers with the odd nutter thrown in to keep things interesting. I suppose that should teach me something about making assumptions and stereotyping shouldn't it as I couldn't have been more wrong really.
ReplyDeleteMy experience so far has been that the more 'unschooly' a family is the less able they seem to be able to tolerate others alternative views and methods even though they claim to be the most liberal and open minded of the lot! Perhaps that's not always the case and is just my experience so far.
I will admit that I'm a member of 'that list' and it does a spectacular job of ensuring that we will never become Autonomous.
Loz - sorry you were kicked off the list, on the up side you have just got a new 'follower' on your blog :)
"I was amazed at the need for home educators to put everyone in a box with a nice little label,"
ReplyDeleteRather a sweeping statement, you can't tar all home educators with the same brush. As a home educator I do not see the need or benefit of fitting someone into a box, although this is a practice which is all to common in school.
"I don't know - it's nothing to do with me but, having known of or known Mike for over a decade now, I would be surprised if he chucked someone off for disagreeing with the majority!"
ReplyDeleteSimon was one such person to be given the boot mainly (despite whatever weak arguments to the contrary) he dared to disagree with the majority and actually had his views printed. I would also suggest that dissenters are only tolerated until a shallow pretext to get them removed is found: so now the justification for Loz's removal will be that she "cross posted"
without permission, something which is actually done by a lot of people on a lot of forums (including HEUK!) without it being such a big deal.
"I keep hearing about the 'attacks' against people for their choices but have not seen them"
Perhaps you are selective in your choice of which discussions to follow on the list then? I genuinely fail to see how it can be missed.
Well, I don't know if this is sticking my head above the parapet but here goes...
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't have kicked Simon off any list because I am very wary of censorship (or even accusations of censorship - must be the librarian in me!) but I don't run a list so it wasn't my call. I'm not surprised it happened, however, and, whether Simon can understand this or not, I think that many people felt betrayed by him. When it comes to the details of the whole thing then I think it's been debated to death and there's not much to be gained by going over it all endlessly.
When it comes to 'attacks' on people for their educational approach, I think that you have to expect people to have different (and strongly held) opinions about learning when they discuss home ed. All the national lists I belong to can be pretty adversarial in tone at times. But this is the internet, folks! If you don't like what someone says then ignore it. If Simon implies that I choose not to educate my children properly I don't think that's an 'attack' on me - it's his opinion. Equally, non-autonomous educators might not like the views in some other home ed cyber places but then they can just ignore them, can't they?
I have belonged to various lists over the years I've home educated and some I have left because they clearly didn't have anything to offer me personally and were (as my children might say) doing my head in! I don't think anyone drove me away. They just weren't for me. No-one can expect to feel universally welcomed wherever they go - in the real world or in cyberspace. If you want something different to what's on offer then make it happen.
I see people discussing the pros and cons of various approaches on lists. Is that wrong? People seem to be saying that Simon and others like him should be able to attack AE at will, suggesting that it is abusive and harmful to children and should be stopped, and autonomous educators must accept this, whilst at the same time, people should be able to suggest formal education from 4 without criticism (though I've never seen it suggested that it is abusive and should be stopped). You can't have it both ways.
ReplyDelete"Simon was one such person to be given the boot mainly (despite whatever weak arguments to the contrary) he dared to disagree with the majority and actually had his views printed."
It's not that he disagreed with the majority, he had been doing that for 20+ months on a regular basis. He said in a national paper that autonomous education was abusive and should be stopped. Is this attitude appropriate on a *support* list that includes members who use this approach?
Claire said: Loz - sorry you were kicked off the list, on the up side you have just got a new 'follower' on your blog :)
ReplyDeleteThanks for that!!! It's good to see that HE-UK hasn't poisoned or pigeon-holed everyone.
A home education link!
ReplyDeletehttp://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/2160240?UserKey=
Family de-registered by the school and told that they are home educating!
Think they've got that wrong.
Claire :'My experience so far has been that the more 'unschooly' a family is the less able they seem to be able to tolerate others alternative views and methods even though they claim to be the most liberal and open minded of the lot! Perhaps that's not always the case and is just my experience so far.'
ReplyDeleteYour experience matches mine (2 decades now.)
'I will admit that I'm a member of 'that list' and it does a spectacular job of ensuring that we will never become Autonomous.'
Having said that here I fear you will now be expelled too, Claire.
Peter said, 'Who is Mike? his he a teacher? what did you do to get chuck off this list do tell? i check it out and see what this mike is up to!
ReplyDeleteMe to i love to speak out about something such has the rubbish service you get from our LA.'
Oh please, do. Most people there would be really up for that.
anon says- Oh please, do. Most people there would be really up for that.
ReplyDeleteWe have spoken up loads of times about the rubbish service you get from Hampshire LA but for some reason HCC dont like this! we could write again if you want? its no good contacting that Jan Lewis she only intersted in home educators if you do home education the right way! so who you want us to contact?
I think part of the problem is that very few people 'get' AE in the wider world whilst everyone understands and expects schooly methods. HE lists (and to a lesser extent local groups) end up being the only place AE can be discussed by people who understand it. I think this tends to lead to people feeling defensive about AE and possibly over reacting to anything that feels like a criticism of it in the place they feel safest.
ReplyDeleteI have seen lots of posts recommending various structured methods and styles of HE that have not been challenged by autonomous educators, so maybe there is a difference between the way some posts are written such that some sound like a simple description of the method a person uses and finds works well for them on the one hand, and others that sound more critical of people who use less formal methods. The former would not cause a reaction whilst the later would. It would be interesting to compare the wording of the original posts where the different reactions occur.
'I think part of the problem is that very few people 'get' AE in the wider world whilst everyone understands and expects schooly methods'
ReplyDeleteThat is possibly true. The reverse is also unfortunately true.
Many AE parents believe the KNOW how non-AE'ers HE, when they actually don't. Lots of assumptions are made about, for eg, it being 'schooly'. The word 'schooly', as a derogatory descriptor, comes up so often. My children's experience was as far from 'schooly' (or indeed, 'formal') as you could get, yet AE'ers who knew nothing except that we weren't AE felt perfectly happy to daub us with that brush.
Perhaps both groups need to ratchet down the rhetoric and let people do what's best for their children without insulting other families.
Peter said, 'so who you want us to contact?'
ReplyDeleteMike Fortune Wood at HE-UK.
Mr Williams, you can join the HE-UK list by going to this site;
ReplyDeletehttp://www.home-education.org.uk/
I am sure that you will find a lot to talk about there.
"Perhaps both groups need to ratchet down the rhetoric and let people do what's best for their children without insulting other families."
ReplyDeleteWell wouldn't that be nice?! But, I also think that it would be good if we all felt a bit less defensive. I don't think it's surprising that home ed circles can be very defensive because when you step outside the mainstream you do tend to be ready to face criticism at every turn. If you feel criticised from with the ranks of home education it can feel like you don't belong anywhere! But it's easy to forget that one, two or even half a dozen voices criticising you online is not the whole home ed world.
In my experience, the best home ed support has come from a few select people with whom I have built trusting relationships - whether online or IRL. Lists can be great for a debate or for information sharing but when it comes to support I think they are usually too big.
"I'm not surprised it happened, however, and, whether Simon can understand this or not, I think that many people felt betrayed by him."
ReplyDeleteI understand that people felt betrayed by Simons' article. I myself felt it went too far and was unfair in many respects. I should also say that when he was on the HEUK list Simon several times made comments about various posters and aspects of HE that touched on issues that were personal to me and quite upsetting. But is feeling upset because someone's viewpoint of what you do is different from yours (and after all we're not talking about anything as serious as rascism, homophobia etc) justification for expelling them from a list? Or is the ideal of free speech and democracy something that only exists outside the HE community? Wouldn't it have been better to have challenged Simons views on the list rather than banning him and, for that matter, others who who have different views? Do autonomously educating home edders really think this kind of behaviour helps to foster understanding of AE?
It is disappointing because AE as an educational concept is relatively novel in our society and therefore quite exciting if you're a person interested in educational philosophy. Unfortunately though, this kind of anti-tolerant stance engenders a lot of misconceptions and makes it a difficult concept to appreciate.
"Wouldn't it have been better to have challenged Simons views on the list rather than banning him and, for that matter, others who who have different views?"
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, yes, I think that would have been better.
Why particular individuals get banned from email lists and forums is always very difficult to untangle. It tends to be a complicated story with disputed facts in it.
"Many AE parents believe the KNOW how non-AE'ers HE, when they actually don't. Lots of assumptions are made about, for eg, it being 'schooly'. The word 'schooly', as a derogatory descriptor, comes up so often."
ReplyDeleteYes, it's not a word I usually use, I think I used it because I was responding to the post where 'unschooly' was used to describe autonomous educators. I think that often the methods used look very similar, it's just who decides what and how things are studied that vary most. My impression is that the majority use a mixed approach, some of the education being parent-led and some child-led. A few autonomous educators try to be completely child-led and others are primarily parent-led but I honestly think these groups are in the minority. I must admit that I'm basing this on the group of about 6 families, friends we've gathered as a family in real life, rather than online. Only two of the families try to be completely autonomous, and the rest use a mixture to varying degrees, but we do learn lots together as a group so obviously there's lots of overlap.
"But is feeling upset because someone's viewpoint of what you do is different from yours (and after all we're not talking about anything as serious as rascism, homophobia etc) justification for expelling them from a list? Or is the ideal of free speech and democracy something that only exists outside the HE community?"
ReplyDeleteIt depends on how you view email lists. They belong to the List Owner so ultimately it's up them who they let join the list (as far as is possible allowing for false identities and forwarding of posts to non-members). It's not as though anyone has a right to belong to any email list - no email list is 'the HE community', they are just one small part. If you don't like the ones that are currently available why not start your own? It's very easy to do this on Yahoo.
"It depends on how you view email lists. They belong to the List Owner so ultimately it's up them who they let join the list.... If you don't like the ones that are currently available why not start your own?"
ReplyDeleteSo in other words if you join a list that is supposedly open to 'support' all Home Educators you should be aware that if you say anything that the list owner doesn't like you will be given the boot - without fair hearing. If, therefore, you wish to stay on the list you should be sure to say only what is in agreement with the prevailing orthodoxy of the list owner and those that agree with him/her. If you think this is at all unfair, you should scupper off and start your own group, and thus feel secure in the knowledge that you are now entitled to set your own similarly arbitrary boundaries of acceptance?
"So in other words if you join a list that is supposedly open to 'support' all Home Educators you should be aware that if you say anything that the list owner doesn't like you will be given the boot - without fair hearing."
ReplyDeleteDo you really think that Mike did that? Do you think he agreed with everything Simon said for 20+ months. Get real.
"If you think this is at all unfair, you should scupper off and start your own group, and thus feel secure in the knowledge that you are now entitled to set your own similarly arbitrary boundaries of acceptance?"
ReplyDeleteTake this to the extreme. If you ran a list and someone on there constantly dominated the list, criticized everyone's point of view both on and off list to the extent that nobody felt safe posting, what would you do? Is there any point in running a list if no one dares post to it? Sometimes the line must be drawn and it's down to the List Owner to draw the line. It's not always an easy choice to make and I've seen lists completely wrecked when List Owners have taken too cautious an approach. Freedom of speech is fine, as long as it doesn't stop other people having freedom of speech.
'Take this to the extreme. If you ran a list and someone on there constantly dominated the list, criticized everyone's point of view both on and off list to the extent that nobody felt safe posting, what would you do? Is there any point in running a list if no one dares post to it?'
ReplyDeleteI hope this is not a coded refrerence to me! As somebody who commented here a few days ago said, I only posted ten times on HE-UK in the whole of 2008! Hardly enough to dominate the list!
'Take this to the extreme. If you ran a list and someone on there constantly dominated the list, criticized everyone's point of view both on and off list to the extent that nobody felt safe posting, what would you do?'
ReplyDeleteAre you claiming that this is what Loz did to be thrown off the list?
anon says-Peter said, 'so who you want us to contact?'
ReplyDeleteMike Fortune Wood at HE-UK.
but he not an LA worker he cant give you funding or real resourses towards home education only an LA can Wood appears to just run a blog a talking shop? its not talking we want its action! he a bit like you Webb just runing a talking shop!
'but he not an LA worker he cant give you funding or real resourses towards home education only an LA can Wood appears to just run a blog a talking shop? its not talking we want its action! he a bit like you Webb just runing a talking shop!'
ReplyDeleteNo, no, he's the expert, Peter. He's in charge of HE in this country. Didn't you realise?
No, no, he's the expert, Peter. He's in charge of HE in this country. Didn't you realise?
ReplyDeletesorry Never heard of him till yesterday Loz told me about him. he banned her from a list.
He not in charge of me or our home education he appears to run a blog with bits of advice on it I think he said some where on his blog no funding for home education from your LA i want some one who will take action not write a blog!
He owns and moderates a very large (2,000?) online HE group. Many people seem to idolise him, hanging on his every word. If Mike says no to an idea to do with HE anywhere, that's the end of it.
ReplyDeleteI would imagine that this blog is an attempt at some sort of counter-balance to the hegemony at HE-UK.
He owns and moderates a very large (2,000?) online HE group. Many people seem to idolise him, hanging on his every word. If Mike says no to an idea to do with HE anywhere, that's the end of it.
ReplyDeleteI dont idolise him never heard of him till yesterday!
Simon wrote,
ReplyDelete"I hope this is not a coded refrerence to me! "
and Anonymous wrote,
"Are you claiming that this is what Loz did to be thrown off the list? "
Calm down, calm down. No, it was an imaginary situation - though similar has happened on email lists I've belonged to (and I don't think Simon or Loz ever belonged to them). I was just attempting to illustrate why List Owners in general may not choose to allow a free for all on their lists (if they want them to continue).
"I would imagine that this blog is an attempt at some sort of counter-balance to the hegemony at HE-UK."
ReplyDeleteHegemony? I think you need to check the dictionary. HE-UK is just one of many lists in the UK some of which are general and other that are specific to a local area or interest group within HE. I very much doubt it's the predominant influence within HE even taking just the internet side of things.
'at' not 'of'.
ReplyDelete'Calm down, calm down.' Who's not calm?
ReplyDeleteList owners (I own several lists) have a difficult job sometimes. Finding the right place on the continuum between free-for-all-fisticuffs and heavy-handed control has to be found and, wherever you sit on that line, there will be people at either end who will gripe and snipe at you.
However, throwing someone off the list because they don't agree with the prevailing view is not good, especially for a list calling itself HE-UK, which is an impressive and inclusive-sounding title.
"However, throwing someone off the list because they don't agree with the prevailing view is not good"
ReplyDeleteI don't think that's what happened to Loz. I would guess it was because she cross-posted from the list to her blog, something that is clearly against the rules she agreed to abide by when joining the list.
As to Simon, he disagreed with the prevailing view (frequently) for 20+ months without being thrown off the list. It was only when he claimed that others on the list were abusing their children and should be stopped from following the educational philosophy of their choice in a national paper that he was thrown off. If you want to include this within, 'disagreeing with the prevailing view', that's your prerogative on your lists.
Yes Simon - why don't you tell people why you really got thrown off? And why they are still cross with you?? Rather than the story about disagreeing with them which has nothing to do with it at all!
ReplyDelete"I don't think that's what happened to Loz. I would guess it was because she cross-posted from the list to her blog, something that is clearly against the rules she agreed to abide by when joining the list"
ReplyDeleteAnd this is something which has never been done by other (still continuing) members of HE-UK? Funny how the penalty for breaking the rules is rather selectively applied. Perhaps it goes by the rule of Pot and Kettle then?
I thought she'd simply referred to something happening at an unnamed blog. That's not the same thing as cross-posting, is it?
ReplyDelete"And this is something which has never been done by other (still continuing) members of HE-UK? Funny how the penalty for breaking the rules is rather selectively applied. Perhaps it goes by the rule of Pot and Kettle then? "
ReplyDeleteYou will have to less cryptic if you expect a sensible reply to that.
"I thought she'd simply referred to something happening at an unnamed blog."
No. She described an email list conversation in detail on her blog. It actually followed a similar post from a few days earlier about a conversation on another email list. Strange how HE blog writers seem to feel the need to write so much about other people's conversations taken from email lists. I suppose it fills a need for posts when you are struggling for material.
It's hardly cryptic. HE bloggers do it all the time.
ReplyDeleteLOL! So, you are telling me that if Loz had referred to this conversation in the same amount of detail on her blog, but had concluded that Mike F-W had been absolutely correct in his treatment of the newcomer and supportive of the prevailing view ie member reactions to the questioning, that he'd have banned her from his list?
ReplyDeleteEven the staunchest F-W fan wouldn't be able to claim that.
For years now, some home educators in EO and on HEUK have been more than willing to adopt cult like behaviour. I recall MF-W and his missus, oh the fun watching them hold court with unsuspecting newbies..
ReplyDeleteXcept it wasn't fun, it was all rather patronising as the Taking Children Seriously philosophy was interwined with Libertarianist faux politics. This was being flogged to those too bloody weak minded to tell them where to get off.
'For years now, some home educators in EO and on HEUK have been more than willing to adopt cult like behaviour. '
ReplyDeleteThis is quite true. One needs to take the ideas on faith and not start asking for facts and figures. Mike Fortune-Wood gave the game away when he reacted so sharply to the mother who was asking for a few facts. Why would you need them? Just listen to what he has to say.
"It's hardly cryptic. HE bloggers do it all the time."
ReplyDeleteIt is if you've not seen it!
"LOL! So, you are telling me that if Loz had referred to this conversation in the same amount of detail on her blog, but had concluded that Mike F-W had been absolutely correct in his treatment of the newcomer and supportive of the prevailing view ie member reactions to the questioning, that he'd have banned her from his list?"
ReplyDeleteI've no idea. Did he ban the people on his list who obviously disagreed with him on the list? Can you give some examples of HE bloggers giving detailed descriptions of list messages that have not been banned? You would also need to be reasonably sure that Mike had seen the blog or had had it reported to him of course. He can only ban people if he knows they've broken the rules.
"This was being flogged to those too bloody weak minded to tell them where to get off."
ReplyDeleteYou seem to have a low opinion of the majority of those you come into contact with. According to you some idiots held court and everyone else was weak minded. So we are all either idiots or weak minded in your view.
'I've no idea. Did he ban the people on his list who obviously disagreed with him on the list? Can you give some examples of HE bloggers giving detailed descriptions of list messages that have not been banned? You would also need to be reasonably sure that Mike had seen the blog or had had it reported to him of course. He can only ban people if he knows they've broken the rules. '
ReplyDeleteNice try. But no one is buying that, I'm afraid.
"Nice try. But no one is buying that, I'm afraid."
ReplyDeleteI'm not trying to sell anything, I don't know enough about the issue to attempt that. That's why I asked the questions - on the assumption that you know more than I do because you are talking so authoritatively about the subject. Or are you talking out of your a...?