Monday 26 July 2010

The terminology of disability

I was faintly taken aback yesterday to find somebody here asking me if I was on the autistic spectrum simply because I had not found something she said offensive. She had written a pastiche of my profile on here which was apparently intended to offend me but which I found mildly amusing and finished off by saying, 'Offensive, isn't it?' I responded in a humorous vein by asking innocently,
'Offensive to whom?'
To which she replied,
'Really? Are you sure you are not on the autistic spectrum? '
I think, although it is difficult to be sure, that she was the same person who said that she thought that I had Asperger's syndrome because I can be a little forthright in expressing my opinions. I have to say, this is a pretty bizarre idea; that somebody who responds good naturedly to something deliberately offensive, should then be diagnosed as having a disability! It really makes me wonder about the mental processes of anyone who could use such peculiar logic.

It is funny how the use of expressions like these changes over the years. We routinely use the word 'idiot' as an insult, but barely a century ago it was a precise clinical diagnosis, being the term used for somebody with an IQ of less than 30. The same applied to the word 'imbecile', (IQ 26 -50) and of course 'moron' (IQ 51-70). These were once very useful words, although few of us would dream of employing them today to describe somebody with learning difficulties! Because people began using them as insults, they became devalued and professionals abandoned them. This is a shame, because of course it is very useful to have exact terms for levels of learning disability like this. Spastic is another clinical description which we rarely use these days. We tend to refer instead to those with cerebral palsy. This is of course because 'spastic' has gone the same way as the words 'idiot' and 'imbecile'; that is to say they have all degenerated into mere abuse. Still, children are usually a step ahead of us when we try to deprive themselves of such handy ways of being rude. Since the Spastics' Society re-branded itself as Scope a few years ago, children in the playground now call each other 'scopers' rather than 'spastics'!

There are two problems with the use of euphemism like this. The first is that the euphemisms quickly become offensive themselves. 'Retarded' went out a few years ago to be replaced with 'mentally handicapped'. We now talk of special needs and learning difficulties. If I referred here to some kid being retarded, I suspect that it might cause offence and yet only a few years ago it would have been perfectly correct and unobjectionable. My daughter tells me that 'retard' is a popular term of abuse at her college. There is a very high turnover in euphemisms in the field of special educational needs and if you use an outdated one then you immediately reveal yourself as at best out of touch and at worst insensitive. How shall we describe that blind kid? Differently abled? Visually impaired? Having seeing difficulties? Fortunately, because I work in Hackney and Haringey I am always on the ball in this respect! The other problem is that useful words and phrases are avoided and everybody gets muddled up. 'Learning difficulties' is used with slightly different meanings by teachers, nurses and social workers and can mean anything from mild dyslexia to catastrophic brain damage. Somebody who is hearing impaired might be a little hard of hearing in one ear or he could be completely deaf.

This is why I object to the use of 'autistic' or 'Asperger's' to describe somebody who appears to be rude or insensitive. There are plenty of rude and insensitive people in the world and very few of them have Asperger's Syndrome. And of course not all those who have Asperger's Syndrome are rude and insensitive. Using the expression in a pejorative way simply has the effect of reinforcing sterotypes. If we sling words like autistic and Asperger's about too freely then they will soon become debased and meaningless. There are any number of ways to describe me without resorting to the terminology of disability. Self-opinionated, arrogant, snobbish, blunt; all these are probably quite adequate! Asperger's Syndrome is a very clear diagnosis and if we are not careful it will go the same way as 'idiot' or 'moron' and we will get up one morning and find that it is no longer in polite usage. In fact, I have heard kids using 'autistic' in the same way that they once used 'spastic', so I suspect that this process might already have begun. Saloon bar pundits regularly suggested that Gordon Brown displayed the symptoms of Asperger's Syndrome and I have heard this said of other politicians who lack charm or charisma. It is becoming quite fashionable to dismiss somebody whom you find aloof as probably having Asperger's. To this extent, I am fighting a losing battle here and ten years down the line both 'Asperger's' and 'autistic' will have slipped into the same category as 'spastic' and 'imbecile'. It is just slightly depressing to see the parents of children on the autistic spectrum hastening this process along!

62 comments:

  1. I'd wondered if you might be AS Simon, but wouldn't use that as an insult, at you or anyone... I haven't ever heard the AS being used as an insult actually, or considered it a disability.

    I've not looked here for a while but just had a quick read of some of your latest posts, and there's one where you compare AE with fake psychics etc. so if someone insulted you in response to that I wouldn't be surprised - it was very rude + offensive. If someone insulted you in return, well that's not nice but generally if you go around insulting people it's not surprising when they respond the same way.

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  2. "If someone insulted you in return, well that's not nice but generally if you go around insulting people it's not surprising when they respond the same way."

    I have not the least objection to anybody insulting me; you have missed the point. I am complaining about the trivialisation of expressions such as 'autistic' and 'Asperger's'. I am sure that if people wish to insult me then they can manage to avoid using disability or mental health related phrases. It is quite revealing though that you seem to have got the impression that people were actually trying to insult me; something which those posting yesterday were at pains to deny.

    The other point is of course that if somebody says that they think that home education is a lousy idea and very bad for children, I do not take this as a personal insult. I was for many years a home educator and many in the orthodox education world reagrd this as a being a bad thing. I never take these opinions personally and neither should anybody else when I criticise the idea of autonomous education.

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  3. Simon, I can't believe you thought you were being insulted! I've read the post now! Here it is for those of us who don't want to trawl thropugh 65 comments!!

    Anonymous said...
    "My impression is that people answered your initial questions fully and openly and only became defensive when you seemed unable to understand repeated explanations and appeared to go out of your way to upset people, (appearing to) purposely misunderstand or ignore any points you could not dismiss."

    That is my impression too. To begin with, I defended you when friends with less patience, or more insight, than I were getting angry with you. I thought you must be very socially inept, possibly with asperger's, and didn't realise the effect that your comments had on other people. I couldn't believe that anyone would come on to an HE forum just to be vindictive. Live and learn, as they say.

    I'm thinking of starting a blog myself. It will be called Structured Home Education Cynic, and my profile will go like this:

    I am an fluffy, middle aged woman who grew up in England during the fifties and sixties. I educated my daughter myself because I could not be bothered to get her up for school. I cannot abide intellectual snobs, know-it-alls and control freaks, which is perhaps why I do not get on particularly well with structured educators.

    Offensive, isn't it?
    (I hope the structured HErs here realise that I don't mean this...)

    It's obvious that this person means that she thinks you might find the above description on a blog offensive! There's no insult about autism or aspergers here! Most people would have understood that, so possibly that's why there's a further comment about AS.

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  4. It is quite revealing though that you seem to have got the impression that people were actually trying to insult me; something which those posting yesterday were at pains to deny.

    ermm.. I got that from your post - I've only just this minute been reading through the 65 comments!

    Had a quick re-read and although yer, you never said "I feel insulted" I got to the end of post feeling that the AS terms had been used as insults towards you and that you think that's wrong.

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  5. mis-typred, sorry I meant

    Had a quick re-read and although yes, you never said "I feel insulted" I got to the end of post feeling that you believed the AS terms had been used as insults towards you and that you think that's wrong.

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  6. "Simon, I can't believe you thought you were being insulted!"

    Curious, because the first person to comment here said, "if you go around insulting people it's not surprising when they respond the same way." I wonder which of you is right?

    "It's obvious that this person means that she thinks you might find the above description on a blog offensive!"

    And this was followed up with a crack about autism.

    " I thought you must be very socially inept, possibly with asperger's,"

    I think that one of us is being a little ingenuous. If I say to somebody who irritates me by dropping things and generally being clumsy, 'Oh, I stood up for you by telling everybody that I thought you had cerebral palsy!', can you really see nothing wrong about this? Can you really not see why the clumsy person might feel that this was designed to be insulting? And can you not understand why somebody who genuinely had cerebral palsy might be offended by the casual use of the syndrome in this way?

    The point I was making, which seems to elude everybody, is this. One cannot diagnose either Asperger's Syndrome or autism from reading a few comments on an Internet list. Using these terms in a casual way trivialises them and has the effect of making them ultimately worthless.

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  7. Just to clarify matters a little, I have no idea at all whether or not anybody yesterday meant to to insult me, although I would not be at all surprised to hear that that was the intention. I did not find any of the comments yesterday offensive, but that is obviously symptomatic of my autism! I am concerned about the use of expressions like 'autism' and 'Asperger's Syndrome' not because I would be insulted to be described in those terms but for more general reasons which I outline above. If anybody did actually mean to insult me, then that is also fine. I am a grown-up and quite capable of absorbing insults!

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  8. I don't find the terms autism or Asperger's Syndrome insulting. I know a couple of people with Asperger's and like them very much, but find it's important to bear their diagnosis in mind when with them in order not to take offence when none is intended. Your inability to see that particular comments may be offensive to some people is the type of behaviour I expect from my friends. When the poster yesterday asked, "Offensive, isn't it?", I don't think they meant just to you, I think they were suggesting it was an offensive comment to all structured home educators, hence the apology immediately afterwards. You appeared not to be able to recognise that some people would find a comment like this offensive, hence the similarity to my friends and also the child of person who made the quoted post above who also has Asperger's.

    I think your automatic assumption that we intended these comments as insults says more about you than us. We were attempting to make allowances so that we could avoid taking offence if none were intended. As you say you do not have Asperger's we can only assume that most of your insults are intentional and that you are aggressive in conversations and take pleasure from winding people up. Lovely. I much prefer the Asperger's theory as it would make you potentially likeable.

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  9. "Curious, because the first person to comment here said, "if you go around insulting people it's not surprising when they respond the same way." I wonder which of you is right? "

    My understanding from reading the anonymous posts on this thread is that they are all by the same poster, the first message written before they had read any comments on the previous thread and the second comment afterwards. The "I've read the post now!" comment suggests this to me. Hopefully the poster/s will confirm or deny.

    BTW, if anyone wants to specify a name without signing in (a la 'Anonymous Y'), select the option above Anonymous on the drop down list. You do not have to specify an URL.

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  10. "I think your automatic assumption that we intended these comments as insults says more about you than us."

    I did not automatically assume this. However when somebody writes a pastiche of one's personal profile and then asks, "offensive, isn't it?", there must be at least a suspicion that this is a bit of a dig.

    "We were attempting to make allowances so that we could avoid taking offence if none were intended."

    You need not be so delicate. If you wish to say something, just come out with it. I neither have Asperger's Syndrome, nor am I so sensitive that a few verbal knocks are likely to harm me.

    " I much prefer the Asperger's theory as it would make you potentially likeable."

    I am by no means convinced that you are the sort of person whom I would wish to like me. You come across as one of those to whom I refer in the above post. " I know a couple of people with Asperger's and like them very much," Yuck, reminds me of, "some of my best friends are Jews"!

    "hence the similarity to my friends and also the child of person who made the quoted post above who also has Asperger's."

    If you were possessed of any insight then you would be aware that people on the Internet are often habitually ruder and more aggressive than they are in face-to-face situations. I am no exception. Once again, I must say that to attempt to diagnose Asperger's Syndrom or autism from casual interactions on the Internet is foolish and ill advised.

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  11. Incidentally, I've decided to continue thinking of you as though you have Asperger's because I prefer this to assuming you intend to insult me (even if you do). Comments only becomes insults when I believe they are insults and become upset by them so I intend to take control of my feelings by thinking of you as having Asperger's. I find the frankness without intent to insult refreshing in my friends with Asperger's. Watch out Simon, I may even begin to like you!

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  12. "there must be at least a suspicion that this is a bit of a dig."

    I assumed it was an attempt to help you see things from anothers point of view. As I say, assumptions possibly say more about the preson making the assumption.

    "I neither have Asperger's Syndrome, nor am I so sensitive that a few verbal knocks are likely to harm me."

    I was at least as concerned for the people you were insulting who might not feel at all insulted or upset if they found out you had Asperger's.

    "You come across as one of those to whom I refer in the above post. " I know a couple of people with Asperger's and like them very much," Yuck, reminds me of, "some of my best friends are Jews"! "

    The two situations are not comparable. Race and colour do not usually affect behaviour to such an extent as Asperger's so it's very rarely necessary to even think about it (except when preparing meals, for instance). I only mentioned that I like them because you appear to assume that people would not and seemed to think that being assumed to have Asperger's is an insult when none was intended. It's not a comment I've ever felt the need to make elsewhere!

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  13. BTW Simon, I would really love to know, have you learnt nothing thoroughly and carefully since your parents or teachers stopped directing your education, or has it all been scrappy and second rate since school/college/university leaving age?

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  14. " because I prefer this to assuming you intend to insult me (even if you do). "

    Absolutely baffling! How on earth could I insult you, I have no idea at all who you are? One cannot really insult an anonymous individual. I suppose that I could say unpleasant things about matters that you feel strongly about, but since I have no ide at all what they might be, they would hardly be insults.

    In any case, attacks on ideas are not really insults. I go to church regularly and some people find that odd or even wrong. Could I go on Richard Dawkins' blog and tell him that he has insulted me because of the things that he has said about organised religion? Probably not.

    Criticising autonomous education, however robustly I do it, is not an insult to anybody, any more than Richard Dawkins' and Christopher Hitchens' attacks on religion are an insult to church goers. Tell me anonymous Y, do you really think that it would make sense for me to accuse Richard Dawkins of being autistic because he does not seem to care that he has upset me by his attitude to religion? Do get a grip!

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  15. "I was at least as concerned for the people you were insulting "

    This is complete and utter nonsense. Criticising an educational theory cannot possibly be insulting to people. Are you really saying that is I posted here a vigorous denunciation of Synthetic Phonics then anybody who teached by using this method would be netitled to consider themslves as having been insulted? As I remarked in my previous comment, 'get a grip'!

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  16. "You come across as one of those to whom I refer in the above post. " I know a couple of people with Asperger's and like them very much," Yuck, reminds me of, "some of my best friends are Jews"! "

    The two situations are not comparable. Race and colour do not usually affect behaviour to such an extent as Asperger's so it's very rarely necessary to even think about it (except when preparing meals, for instance). "

    Hmmm, complete inability to grasp analogy and tendency to take words at face value without appreciating subtle shades of meaning or figures of speech such as irony. Now this puts me in mind of some condition or other, I can't remember which one offhand.

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  17. "Absolutely baffling! How on earth could I insult you, I have no idea at all who you are?"

    So you cannot understand how a blanket insult of a whole group of people could also be taken as an insult by individuals within that group?

    "Criticising an educational theory cannot possibly be insulting to people."

    You cannot see that suggesting that autonomous educators are like the people who faked FC, the assumption that most are lying, that we are harming our children both academically and emotionally and that we trample over their rights in blind pursuit of an 'alternative' lifestyle is an insult to individual home educators?

    "Tell me anonymous Y, do you really think that it would make sense for me to accuse Richard Dawkins of being autistic because he does not seem to care that he has upset me by his attitude to religion?"

    I don't know, I've not seen his views. Does he say that all believers are delude idiots? If he does then I would say that he is insulting you. Whether this upsets you is another issue.

    "Hmmm, complete inability to grasp analogy and tendency to take words at face value without appreciating subtle shades of meaning or figures of speech such as irony."

    Possibly, or maybe I just know little (i.e. nothing) about the origin of the 'some of my best friends are Jews' comment and cannot see the connection beyond the obvious suggestion that needing to say this suggests discrimination. I cannot see the analogy between race discrimination and bearing in mind a persons disability when communicating with them if their disability affects communication.

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  18. "Are you really saying that is I posted here a vigorous denunciation of Synthetic Phonics then anybody who teached by using this method would be netitled to consider themslves as having been insulted? "

    If they said that teaching using Synthetic Phonics is child abuse, then yes, they would be entitled to consider themselves insulted.

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  19. "Hmmm, complete inability to grasp analogy and tendency to take words at face value without appreciating subtle shades of meaning or figures of speech such as irony."

    I'm sure you've said before that you would like to see genuine discussion of issues on your blog. Now you appear to prefer superficial exchanges of irony. What do you want from you blog Simon?

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  20. "obvious suggestion that needing to say this suggests discrimination."

    Nothing to do with discrimination but everything to do with being patronising.

    If every member of a group whic was criticised then took the critisim personally then there would be many angry and upset people around. Do you really think that every individual teacher in the country feels insulted because of the harsh things which I have said about schools? Come to that, i have seen many critical things said about schools and local authorities on both the HE-UK and EO lists. Arte you really saying that all local authority officers and teachers should feel individually insulted by such criticism? I think it is less a case of my having autistic features and more a matter of some overly sensitive people.

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  21. "It is funny how the use of expressions like these changes over the years. We routinely use the word 'idiot' as an insult, but barely a century ago it was a precise clinical diagnosis, being the term used for somebody with an IQ of less than 30. The same applied to the word 'imbecile', (IQ 26 -50) and of course 'moron' (IQ 51-70). These were once very useful words, although few of us would dream of employing them today to describe somebody with learning difficulties!"

    Not sure how useful they were, really. Not sure how useful IQ has ever been as a measure of someone's abilities, never mind their disabilities.

    One does wonder why there is a tendency to categorise *people*, rather than their disabilities. I can understand why a label for a disability could be useful; someone might be autistic, or dyspraxic or dyslexic, for example. But describing them as *having* autism, or dyspraxia or dyslexia reifies what is often a poorly defined disability, and describing them as *an* 'autistic' or *a* 'dyspraxic' or *a* 'dyslexic' - or even an idiot, imbecile or moron - suggests they fall into a clear-cut category, which might not be the case.

    Oh, and thank you to Anonymous Y for identifying yourself.

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  22. "If they said that teaching using Synthetic Phonics is child abuse, then yes, they would be entitled to consider themselves insulted. "

    Yes, I'm not sure how child abuse has crept in here!

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  23. "But describing them as *having* autism, or dyspraxia or dyslexia reifies what is often a poorly defined disability, and describing them as *an* 'autistic' or *a* 'dyspraxic' or *a* 'dyslexic' "

    Interesting points, suzyg. Some people object to being described simply as being autistic. This can suggest that this is the main or defining part of their personality, of who they are. Rather like saying that somebody is British, say. By saying that they have autism, one is saying that this is but one facet of the person. Another example of how careful one must be when talking of disability.

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  24. "Yes, I'm not sure how child abuse has crept in here!"

    You have said that autonomous educators harm their children both educationally and emotionally and trample roughshod over their rights. Sounds like child abuse to me.

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  25. BTW Simon, I would really love to know, have you learnt nothing thoroughly and carefully since your parents or teachers stopped directing your education, or has it all been scrappy and second rate since school/college/university leaving age?

    Still no answer, Simon? A simple yes, no or mind your own business will do.

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  26. "You have said that autonomous educators harm their children both educationally and emotionally and trample roughshod over their rights. Sounds like child abuse to me."

    I have said that some autonomous educators do this. I have also said similar things about some of those who use other educational methods, drawing attention to the fact that some highly structured teaching of the sort which I favour could be described as cruelty. I have certainly criticised the over-emphasis oon parents' rights as oposed to those of children, but I would not call this child abuse. Remind me what I said about autonomous educators harming their children emotionally?

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  27. Simon wrote,
    "I have said that some autonomous educators do this."

    You may have occasionally qualified your comments but usually you make blanket statements like:

    The most popular educational method used by those who withdraw their children from school in this country is known as autonomous education and involves nobody teaching children anything at all! I believe this peculiar technique is causing incalculable damage to the thousands of home educated children upon whom it is used.

    "Remind me what I said about autonomous educators harming their children emotionally?"

    "I have observed that those children in our own circle who were raised in this way, being allowed lots of choices and making decisions all the time, seem to be more neurotic and anxious than those raised in a more conventional way."

    Are you suggesting that raising children is such as way that makes them more neurotic and anxious is not harmful emotionally?

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  28. "I have observed that those children in our own circle who were raised in this way, being allowed lots of choices and making decisions all the time, seem to be more neurotic and anxious than those raised in a more conventional way."

    None of these children were being educated autonomously; all were sent to school.

    "You may have occasionally qualified your comments but usually you make blanket statements like:"

    No, I invariably do so. The example you gave was taken from a piece that I did for the Independent. It was edited horribly, but certainly left my hands with the usual qualifications. The clue that I had not had a free hand here was that the article appeared beneath the banner about getting tough on homeschooling. This is not an expression which I use myself unless I am writing about US home education.

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  29. "None of these children were being educated autonomously; all were sent to school."

    This is semantics because you know that AE invariably involves giving children lots of choice.

    "No, I invariably do so."

    Well, as I'm not prepared to trawl back through all your posts, I'll have to take your word that you do this, but that has not been my impression whilst reading your posts. Maybe you need to make more effort in that line?

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  30. It is not semantics at all. There is and has always been an enormous amount of discussion about the extent to which it is good for small children to have many choices. Some feel it is a good thing and others feel that it can be confusing for them and a little frightening, giving them the impression that they have power over their parents. The orthodox view moves backwards and forward over the years and I have never heard any of those who argue for restricted choice as either being child abusers themselves nor of accusing anybody else of child abuse. I was talking about some purely personal impressions of the children of friends. I also mentioned a conversation which I had had with a friend of my daughter who expressed these ideas about her own childhood. To try and make out from this that I am accusing parents of child abuse is absurd. I never heard anything so foolish in all my life.

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  31. I asked,
    "have you learnt nothing thoroughly and carefully since your parents or teachers stopped directing your education, or has it all been scrappy and second rate since school/college/university leaving age?"

    and Simon wrote earlier,
    "We all acquire various scrappy knowledge like this, both when we are children and also as adults. I don't regard this as sufficient for an effective education. You do and so are evidently content with this system."

    So, is it safe to say that you have learnt nothing thoroughly and carefully since your parents or teachers (and possibly employers) stopped directing your education? You have effectively lived through an educational desert, gaining only odd scraps of knowledge for what, 30+ years?

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  32. Simon wrote,
    "It is not semantics at all. There is and has always been an enormous amount of discussion about the extent to which it is good for small children to have many choices."

    So are you are suggesting that raising children is such as way that you believe makes them more neurotic and anxious is not harmful emotionally?

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  33. "So are you are suggesting that raising children is such as way that you believe makes them more neurotic and anxious is not harmful emotionally?"

    I dare say that we all believe that our own particular way of raising children is best. I have known people who slapped their children regularly who thought this and I have also known parents who imposed no discipline or structure at all think precisely the same. What I have not before encountered is the notion that those who disgree strongly with one method or another are in effect accusing parents who use it of child abuse.

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  34. So are stating that raising children is such as way that you believe makes them more neurotic and anxious is not harmful emotionally?

    Yes or no.

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  35. "To which she replied,
    'Really? Are you sure you are not on the autistic spectrum?'"

    Not me, as I explained yesterday. I wrote the pastiche, but not this comment.

    "I think, although it is difficult to be sure, that she was the same person who said that she thought that I had Asperger's syndrome because I can be a little forthright in expressing my opinions."

    Obviously that was me, because it was in the same post as the pastiche.
    By the way, I don't think you've got Asperger's because you're forthright; I think you may have Aspergers because you don't seem to be able to understand why people find your comments offensive. Let me make it a bit clearer: you describe my pastiche as "deliberately offensive" even though it was immediately followed by an expression of my hope that any structured home educators reading it would not take offence. However, even though my pastiche was a simple reversal of your own profile on this blog, which is followed by no such qualification, you don't appear to be able to understand that this profile may be offensive to autonomous home educators.

    "Using the expression in a pejorative way simply has the effect of reinforcing sterotypes."

    Why do you think I was using the term in a pejorative way? If you read my original post again, you will see that I was doing the exact opposite; I was looking for an explanation for your apparently offensive behaviour. Surely it is more pejorative merely to dismiss you as "Self-opinionated, arrogant, snobbish, blunt".

    I'm not sure why you assume that "with Asperger's" is a pejorative term, or that "having cerebral palsy" is an insult. Isn't that a bit like assuming that "black" or Jewish" is pejorative? Should I take offence if you wonder if I am black because I've got a Jamaican accent? Certainly with my own child, I prefer people to know that she has Asperger's and make allowances accordingly, rather than just assume that she's rude, or whatever.

    "And this was followed up with a crack about autism.

    " I thought you must be very socially inept, possibly with asperger's,""

    As I've explained yesterday and above, I wasn't making a "crack"; I was trying to understand your behaviour because (naively, obviously) I couldn't believe that anyone would be so offensive on purpose on an HE forum.

    "What I have not before encountered is the notion that those who disgree strongly with one method or another are in effect accusing parents who use it of child abuse."

    Come off it. To repeat Anonymous Y's quote above:
    "The most popular educational method used by those who withdraw their children from school in this country is known as autonomous education and involves nobody teaching children anything at all! I believe this peculiar technique is causing incalculable damage to the thousands of home educated children upon whom it is used."

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  36. To answer your question on yesterday's post, my child did GCSE's at school.

    And I am very interested in your answer to Anonymous Y's question: have you really learnt nothing but "scraps" since you left formal education?

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  37. "To answer your question on yesterday's post, my child did GCSE's at school."

    You mean that your child was attending the school as a registered pupil? That explains how she managed the practicals and so on.

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  38. He's very good at ignoring the questions you really want answering, isn't he?

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  39. We'll have to draw our own conclusions, won't we Y!

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  40. Hi me again, annonymous who posted this morning first thing. I actually posted both of those comments (below in "") and I did think you insulted AEs by your post comparing them to fake psychics.

    I really didn't feel like reading through 65 comments, but after posting I got curious and did read them.

    Simon said

    "
    "Simon, I can't believe you thought you were being insulted!"

    Curious, because the first person to comment here said, "if you go around insulting people it's not surprising when they respond the same way." I wonder which of you is right?

    (both of me lol! I'm sure the commenter was commenting on how you come across online, which is a difficult medium anyway, and I'm also sure if you go around insulting people they are likely to insult you back)

    "It's obvious that this person means that she thinks you might find the above description on a blog offensive!"

    And this was followed up with a crack about autism.

    " I thought you must be very socially inept, possibly with asperger's,"

    " end quote

    It really is offensive to imply that AEs as similiar to Fake psychics + people who faked some guided communication. I would normally feel offended by that but you're often saying things I could find offensive so I take it with a pinch of salt now.

    Yes, it would have been more tactful for that person to ask you about AS privately, and I can see why you found it patronising. but, if you behave in a way that people find patronising, they might do the same to you!

    I find your belief that you know what all children should be taught, and that I should be made to teach my children those things quite patronising.

    ReplyDelete
  41. "He's very good at ignoring the questions you really want answering, isn't he?"

    Coming onto a blog and then referring to the author in the third person? I thought that I was the one who is supposed to be socially inept.....

    ReplyDelete
  42. Well when we are ignored we may as well talk amongst ourselves - it's more productive. Besides which, you are constantly saying that you are thick skinned and we are over sensitive, so what's your problem?

    ReplyDelete
  43. "We'll have to draw our own conclusions, won't we Y!"

    Yes, X. I've concluded that either Simon and Simone have never been able to learn well autonomously and that's why Simon thinks AE cannot result in an efficient education, or they have learnt a subject thoroughly and well autonomously and he doesn't want to admit it because this will mean admitting that AE can work. Which do you think is most likely?

    ReplyDelete
  44. " I thought you must be very socially inept, possibly with asperger's,""

    The above quote (from Anonymous X?) really makes me really annoyed. I'm the daughter and mother of someone with autism. It's not about being 'socially inept'. It's about having a completely different way of understanding and relating to other people.

    STOP using autism as an insult. You all just demonstrate your ignorance.

    ReplyDelete
  45. Anonymous at 6:38, that comment was made by Anonymous X who is the mother of an Autistic daughter, so I very much doubt that she used autism as an insult. She thought that Simon might have autistic tendencies (because his language/behaviour seemed similar to her daughter's) in his responses on an email list and was concerned that he would be misunderstood by other posters who might take offence unnecessarily.

    ReplyDelete
  46. Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuure

    ReplyDelete
  47. LOL, why so difficult to believe? Are you another who thinks everyone lies about everything?

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  48. And my name's Michael Gove.

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  49. I'll take that as a yes then. You really should not judge everyone by your own standards.

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