Some home educator or another is always getting worked up to discover that a local authority somewhere is misleading parents about the law. I'm bound to say that I am very glad that they do. I think it safe to assume that the parents at the school where I am working this week, are convinced that it is somehow, 'against the law', not to send their children to school. If they didn't believe this to be so, then I doubt that many of those children would receive any education at all.
I have been talking to children in the year 4 class where I am working and also others, when I am on playground duty. I have been trying to find out what sort of stimulation or learning experiences they might be exposed to, outside school. The short answer to that question is; none at all! I began by asking about any hobbies that they had, but I might as well have been speaking Kiswahili for all the sense that such a question meant to them. 'What's hobbies, sir?', they asked.
'You know, things that you do for fun. Like stamp collecting or knitting; reading perhaps?'
They look at me with blank incomprehension. They see that I am genuinely interested, but have not the least idea what I am talking about. One girl says, 'We have reading on Tuesdays.' I explain that I mean reading for pleasure, but it is clear that this is a strange and new idea to them. Not one has any books at home. None belong to a library. Reading is something tiresome that you are forced to do at school.
I ask about bedtimes, but again; the word is incomprehensible. I explain, 'I mean, what time do you go to bed?' The answers are all very similar. They go to bed when their mum goes to bed or when she gets fed up with them. Some of them live in their bedrooms more or less all the time, because they have televisions and games consoles there and can live a separate life from their parents, without getting on their nerves. These are children aged between eight and eleven! Many of them have dark shadows under their eyes, some fall asleep in class; all look tired.
These children live two miles from one of the finest examples of seventeenth century military architecture in the world; but not one has ever visited it. Why would their parents take them to an historic site? I am surprised that the school has not organised a trip there, until I remember that the seventeenth century is not covered by the National Curriculum at that age. If only the fort had been built by the ancient Egyptians, then they might have been taken to visit it!
The only thing these children really do when they are not at school is to watch television and DVDs and play on the Xbox. That is the sum total of their lives, apart from visits to the big shopping centre a few miles away. If these children did not go to school, then not only would they not learn to read and write; many of them would not even learn to speak coherently in whole sentences. It is no exaggeration to say that some of these kids start nursery being able only to communicate in grunts and a few basic words. Often, they are also incontinent; not from a disability, but because the parents are happy to let the school toilet-train them. Why should they do it themselves? That's what the authorities are for!
School for these children is their only, exceedingly slender, chance of being rescued from this sort of life. It is the window on the world of learning for them; the chance to catch a glimpse of a wider world. I can tell you now that the parents grumble like mad about having to get dressed in the morning in order take the children to school. Often, at the weekend, they don't bother to get dressed and the whole family spend all Saturday and Sunday in their pyjamas; watching endless television and DVDs. It is not hard to see that this lifestyle would readily be adopted for the rest of the week, were the mothers not scared of getting into trouble for not sending their children to school. The next time somebody complains about a local authority misrepresenting the law; they might spare a thought for these children. This mistaken impression about the legal situation is the only thing at the moment which ensures that these children receive even the most rudimentary education!
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It is indeed sad.
ReplyDeleteOn a brighter note, I think you might be turning into John Taylor Gatto II.
I am not a huge fan of schools, it is true. I must share something which I am sure will amuse readers. A large board in each classroom explains the school's ethos. There are grand words like Morality, Cooperation, Resilience and so on. Under each heading are a few lines, explaining the concept. So, under cooperation, we find things like; helping others, listening to adults and so on. Morality is summed up in five words! I know that readers are just dying to know what the school defines morality as. It is, 'Obey instructions and Observe the rules'. I love this. It reminds me of the Third Reich.
DeleteHorrendous. It makes me shudder. Would you say they are trying to train a future workforce, rather than inspire learning for its own sake?
Delete'Would you say they are trying to train a future workforce, rather than inspire learning for its own sake?'
DeleteWhat, a bit like Arbeit macht frei, you mean? There is no question of inspiring learning for its own sake. The only achievement might be if those kids learn to read and write and perhaps are able to handle money. I honestly don' think that there is any motive other than to create a learning environment where there is enough peace to get on with this.
This sounds totally bizarre. I worked in schools and it was nothing like the one described above, do you think it's the area? This surely can't be how most schools are now, I really hope it's just a small percentage.
ReplyDelete'do you think it's the area? This surely can't be how most schools are now, I really hope it's just a small percentage.'
DeleteThis one is in west Essex, just outside the M25, and is in a pretty impoverished area, where most of the residents live in social housing. I have encountered the same sort of thing in parts of inner London; for example Hackney and Tower Hamlets. No, I wouldn't say that it is all schools, not by a long chalk, but nor is it all that uncommon either. Which area did you teach in?
that because its a run down rubbish area Webb I doubt those parents would take any notice of some box ticking LA officer but those parents would never home educate their sent there kids to school because it gets them out of the way.
Deleteold Webb says"Some home educator or another is always getting worked up to discover that a local authority somewhere is misleading parents about the law."
ReplyDeletemay as will allow the police to mislead you as well then over the law and the tax man and any one else to? The law is their for every one to follow you can not allow people to over ride the law just because there do not like it? if you do not like a law or want a new law you lobby your M.P and governement
Sorry, Simon, but it's not okay for a LA to lie to one group of people for the sake of another section.
ReplyDeleteNor is it acceptable to monitor a theoretical risk when they should be using scarce resources to alter the living conditions of the kids you're describing. And maybe that starts with expanding state boarding schools, not reducing their numbers.
Anne
Some of what Simon says here may be slightly tongue in cheek? I’m sure he will let us know and he does exaggerate slightly to prove his point. However, imagine if these parents did find out they could educate their children at home. They could ask for some advice about what checks would be made on their provision. Perhaps Mr Williams could offer some of his sage advice “ their be no LA officers coming into my house LOL, call your councillor their help you”. Or perhaps if they felt threatened you could organise a mass collection for them and relocate them all to another country of your choice. Home education should be for people who wish to educate their children at home not for parents who would find it easier not to have to bother taking them to school. Home educators insistence that nobody should be allowed to check what they are doing would allow this to happen.
ReplyDeleteboring cheshire cat say" Perhaps Mr Williams could offer some of his sage advice “ their be no LA officers coming into my house LOL, call your councillor their help you”."
Deleteare you saying that parents/children who home educate should not contact their local county councilor for help with the LA? thought that was what your county councilor was for ours helped us and he become a friend Dr Tony Ludow he also teaches at imperial college he taught me and Peter a lot about how a council works we did some further research into the matter and found out about freedom of information requests from the council we got hold of every email that was sent between the different LA officers which then helped us to pin point lies and half truths which we took straight round to Dr Ludow
as for your other point those type of parents who do not care about their children still prefer to send them to school as their would not want them around the house all day school is a useful free baby siting service for them
as for no one checking the first point is who ever wishes to do this should be kind helpful have a proper understanding of home education and the law want to help you and agree that home education is a really good thing to do he/she should also not be involved in any problem you may have had with a school there was no way on earth i allow a box ticking half wit who told lies and had done nothing to help us into our house i very much doubt you would allow an LA officer into your house who you thought had told lies about you?
we do show our county councilor some of Peter education he was rather impressed and wrote to the LA to say so! I do remember Dr Ludow talking to Peter age 9 about various maths problems it did sound funny cos Peter kept getting them right it was also funny when their first met when Peter was 7 Peter shook his hand and thanked him for wanting to help
Cheshire Cat wrote:
Delete"Home educators insistence that nobody should be allowed to check what they are doing would allow this to happen."
But such checks are to deal with a small minority within a small minority - fiddling while Rome burns! I wish people would learn to to develop some kind of reasoned, quantitative perspective.
The brutal, unpleasant truth is that you can't prevent every child from slipping through the cracks, at least, not without a draconian regime that involves monitoring and inspecting ALL parents - possibly to the extent that you cause more harm than good.
Let's not forget the root causes of this problem: the poverty and poor education of the parents of the children Simon is talking about. They, too, were once children, and were probably in school ~10-30 years ago. The school system was little short of a disaster for them.
Politicians and their servants in the LAs and civil service need to grasp the nettle of this enormous problem, before they worry about home education.
Cheshire Cat??? Sock puppet alert!!
ReplyDeleteAm I? Perhaps you're worried that they will bring in monitoring and find that some of you aren't up to the job.
ReplyDeleteHampshire LA could not organize a bun fight in a bakery
Deleteyou can bring in what ever monitoring you like wont affect me Peter at college doing A level Maths A level Further Maths and A level computer science as well as being a mentor at the college he wants to go on and do a maths degree at Cambridge or Imperial university
you never hear worn out Webb saying how well Peter doing wonder why? and the chess is still going fine to Peter a candidates chess Master
I could care less as to whether they think I am upto the job. Their schools can fail a child and nothing will be done for that child at all.But home ed. parents are expected to be completely without fault? Their standards applied to home ed. are completely unrealistic in comparison to the standards they apply to schools. Can you imagine if schools really worried about if they were upto the job? None of them give a damn though which is why so many parents take their children out of school.
ReplyDeleteagree with what you wrote well said
DeleteLook im sorry if you had such a bad time with your kids school but to say all schools don't give a damn is wrong. My kids school did and they fostered a love of learning that remains today. It appears that anyone who agrees with Simon is a sock puppet yet the majority of comments on here come from people who share a common theme I.e. to disagree with anything simon posts.
DeleteUnfortunately, schools are increasingly failing to turn-out kids who are independently-minded, problem solving thinkers, and that's a view you'll find in many university science and engineering departments and in industry.
DeleteMany of the brightest ones - and those well supported at home - will make it through the system, but a crop of A* grades at GCSE and A-level is not a guarantee of a useful education.
The PISA and OECD studies also provide evidence of the decline of UK schools.
Britain will have a bleak future if it mostly produces lawyers and bean counters, while the emerging economies produce scientists and engineers.
No seriously, none of them give a damn. If your child is too troublesome they will expel them. Not help them.
ReplyDeleteWrong. As a governor for fifteen years our school worked with many 'troublesome' families and we never expelled one.
Deletegovernors often just rubber stamp anything the head wants to do.
Deletewhat you mean by troublesome families? parents who wont do as their told?
to say oh im sorry your kid had a bad time at school is not good enough what that parent supposed to do?
Walking the dog today i met a women not seen in many years she called us over and said your Peter dad? yes i am she asked how he was doing etc i told her about the Maths she then said you where right to not back down with HCC LA and by the way their a bunch of crooks! it turns out HCC LA had let her and her son down to her son had special needs yet no real help from HCC LA for her .
No of course not and also you never were in a real school. Unless you were one of those quaint schools with 30 children.
ReplyDeleteNot sure i understand your comments. However we have 176 pupils.
ReplyDeleteTroublesome families was a refernce to this comment
ReplyDelete"No seriously, none of them give a damn. If your child is too troublesome they will expel them. Not help them." We never labbled them as 'troublesome' just children that needed additional help. When I joined the governors we did just rubber stamp things and it was hard work to get where we are today. I realise a school with hardworking teachers who care about the children is not everyones experience but to label every school as awful is wrong. I am surprised that Mr Williams is such an evangelist for home education given that he only removed his son because the school wouldnt give him enough time off to play chess.....
" I am surprised that Mr Williams is such an evangelist for home education given that he only removed his son because the school wouldnt give him enough time off to play chess."....
Deleteyes we been looking at home education for some time reading about it found out about a local group that met etc in case the time off for off site chess coaching was blocked by the LA the Head teacher was happy with the arrangement it was only when the HCC LA got involved that it all went wrong. Peter was home educated from age of 7 till he was 16 my own view is that a private education is best but we could not afford this nor did we live near enough to a private school for Peter to get to.We where offered a place at Hampton private school but this is in London/surrey to far away.One other private school head did ring me but when i said i have to think about it as your some way from us and Peter aged 7 at the time is to young to get a bus on his own which needed at least to changes i never heard back from that head.
as it turned out it all worked out rather well we got to spend as much time as we wanted on chess and enjoyed the home education as well and now he doing A levels at college and the teachers their said i had done a good job with Peter if only more pupils where like him
It is LA's that cause the problems ass there are not held to account for what there do to parents.in our case it was Hampshire LA and that women i met today confirmed it to me she had lots of problems with them over her son all she wanted to do was get him the help he needed but no real help from Hampshire LA she said their bunch of crooks and i said and liars.
i not an evangelist for home education but what i do want is for HCC LA's to follow the law on home education and not lie to parents /children not a lot to ask is it?
I and Peter learnt a lot about how councils work data act freedom of information act meeting the county councilor and our M>P Peter held meeting with them at a very young age to he used to pop round to Dr Ludlow house if he found something on the HCC education web site that did not appear right! we found out that you can have off site education it was on their Web site but by them it was to late we had started to enjoy the home education the freedom it give you etc
what do parents do if their school does not have hardworking teachers and the governors are only interested in rubbing stamping everything for an easy life? just put up with it?
Tell the person who met today to contact either North Hants or Faregos groups and we will attempt to help them! ( they should have had the details of the groups in the leaflets the LA send out)
ReplyDeleteits to late the lad 16 now when she needed help when he was 9 HCC LA did nothing to help her or the child her child used to go to the school peter went i had not see her until yesterday by chance i was walking our dog and she approached me asking if i was Peter dad etc and then she told me about what had happened no help from HCC just the same old nonsense their is something very wicked about the people who work for HCC their caused this women a lot of heartache all she wanted was the best for her son he had special needs and could not fit in at a normal school I wonder how many other parents/child have been let down by that rubbish HCC LA? you wanna remember something Julie when your sucking up to them we pay there wages via council tax and income tax there work for us and you should remind them of that!
DeleteThats a bit of a rude reply to Julie as she was only trying to help.. Income Tax?? you dont mean you have a job do you?
ReplyDeleteits not a rude reply to Julie its a fact its to late for that women her child is 16 yes i have a job do you have a job then? or are you one of the millions claiming benefits?
Deleteand do you agree with me we pay the LA there wages via tax or are the LA funded by magic?
i should have added i only claim child benefit and am not entitled to any other benefit has income is well above where i could claim for anything else what benefits do you claim?
ReplyDeleteWhen your sucking up is rude. Never claimed any benefits other than child benefit
ReplyDeleteyou not said if you got a job? your rude by trying to imply i did not have a job and you not said if you agree with me we pay the LA there wages via tax council? or are the LA funded by magic?
DeleteJulie does suck up to HCC LA in my view
Yes I have worked constantly for 27 years. I thought with all your home educating dog walking chess and councilor chasing you wouldnt have time. As julie has a different relationship with the LA she is a suck up?
ReplyDeleteyou have worked for constantly for 27 years but now do not?
Deletewhat do you mean by councilor chasing? are you say that you should not approach your councilor for your ward if you have a problem with the local LA?
are you also saying one should not walk a dog?
I do not home educate now Peter at college studying A levels
you appear to be on here a lot to is it becuase your out of work now?
you and Julie have not said who you believe funds an LA is it the council tax payer and income,e tax payer or are the LA funded by magic?
form what i can work out about Julie she does like HCC LA i no idea why she does prephaps she can explain why?
Oh dear - here we go again.....
ReplyDeleteCan't rise to that bait, but will say that the whole issue of children with any type of SEN in school is complicated - and I am not sure I have any real answers. As someone with 3 disabled children, I have plenty of experience with HCC and the whole educational provision. Two of them had excellent specialist placements paid for and provided by HCC ( one main stream primary with full time LSA, followed by secondary school with hearing impaired unit, the other SLD school throughout) Both benefited from specialist teachers, equipment and in the case of the child with SLD, qualified nurses on the premises at all times. They were also taxied to school ( 2 separate taxis going in opposite directions 20 miles each way each day)
Yet for my autistic dd, primary school was a disaster, we tried a private school and then knew we could do better - by home educating. Can I blame HCC- or the school? Frankly I think that many children can learn better in a 1:1 set up - I am not sure what any LA could do to make things better for my dd. However I do know that some families don't want to home educate and want more from the school or LA - but don't get it. It is very complicated.
I had a friend with a son with similar disabilities to my son who wanted 50 week a year residential school - they fought HCC and lost. Such placements are VERY expensive - and the child was only 5. Not sure what I think.
Teacher Julie says"I am not sure what any LA could do to make things better for my dd"
DeleteHampshire LA could have paid for private tuition in your house for your daughter any equipment she may have needed to there are loads of things a good LA good do there could pay fro trips out for her why are LA that we fund as tax payers not pro active in helping children and parents and prefer to tell lies
Julie I wasnt suggesting you were a suck up. Sorry if it looked that way. I was questioning mr Williams.
ReplyDeletecome on tell us who funds LA's
DeleteNo - don't worry - just not wanting to start arguing with PW on the same points!
ReplyDelete